• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Is everything "meaningless" without God?

Freodin

Devout believer in a theologically different God
Mar 9, 2002
15,713
3,762
Germany, Bavaria, Middle Franconia
Visit site
✟260,281.00
Faith
Atheist
My point was that God created you to have a relationship with Him...To love Him. You are saying that showing someone love is the actions of a "yes man" or a "butt kisser". Thus the reason your mother was brought up. Do you not show her love? Based off of your comments, wouldn't that make you your mother's "butt kisser"?
Again, you show your inability to defend your position. You can describe what you reject - "love" as "yes man" or "butt kissing" action... but you cannot explain what your own position is.

Let me explain what I got from your previous posts.

God created us with the purpose of "loving him". "Loving him" would mean that we do not act against our created purpose, but fullfil it. So the describtion of "loving God" is "loving God".

I do not understand that. Please explain it to me.
 
Upvote 0

Archaeopteryx

Wanderer
Jul 1, 2007
22,229
2,608
✟78,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I cannot speak for every atheist on this planet, or even here on the forum.
All I can say: I never expressed nor implied anything but the acceptence that life ends and that "living their life the best they can" is a great idea.
I have also never seen any other atheist here show any inability to do that.

And still, I cannot but notice that when I ask for you to support your position, you instead redirect and rephrase your response as a (n invalid) criticism of our position.

You assert that atheist are inable to accept the fact that living and dying is "the best they can hope for". That means that atheist DO hope or want to hope for something better. I'd say you would be hard pressed to find an atheist here expressing such a desire.

And that also implies that there IS something better to be hoped for. And yet, you are unwilling or unable to show that.


Your "facts" are false. Your position is self-contradicting. That could explain your puzzlement.

Do better!
Constantly striving to do and be one's best in life is apparently tantamount to nothing according to @jason_delisle.
 
Upvote 0

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2015
6,133
3,090
✟405,773.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Again, you show your inability to defend your position. You can describe what you reject - "love" as "yes man" or "butt kissing" action... but you cannot explain what your own position is.

Let me explain what I got from your previous posts.

God created us with the purpose of "loving him". "Loving him" would mean that we do not act against our created purpose, but fullfil it. So the describtion of "loving God" is "loving God".

I do not understand that. Please explain it to me.
How would you define "love"? Is it a feeling, emotion, or an action?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Upvote 0

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2015
6,133
3,090
✟405,773.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So if he knew that I would not love him, and yet still created me, doesn't that mean that he created me for damnation?

Please understand that God does not cause anybody to go to hell. Rather, man chooses to go there on his own. You can see the progression of those who reject Christ in the first 3 chapters of the book of Romans. The wrath of God is revealed against the unrighteous because man rejects the Creator and worships the creation (Romans 1:18-20). Men profess to be wise in their own eyes (v. 22) and exchange the glory of God for created things. These people then continue in a downward spiral of sin that is listed in verses 28-31, sins to which all of us can relate. Not only do they participate in these sins, but they also approve of those who do them (v. 32). Not only do men have the creation of the world to see God’s power, but they also have their consciences convicting them of their sin (2:14-15). In the end, man is left without excuse that we deserve to die, and we stand condemned in front of God.

Jesus Christ came in the flesh so that “you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name” (John 20:30,31). This is another witness to God’s existence and also stands to condemn those men who choose to reject Christ as the Son of God. Because Christ came to pay the price of sin, and He came to “explain the Father” (John 1:18), man has no excuse for rejecting Him. Men choose to go to hell because they reject Christ, not because God causes them to go there. God has paid the price, revealed Himself to all, and now men are “without excuse” (Romans 1:20). God allows people to be born to give them the opportunity to believe, but it is man’s responsibility to make that choice. What kind of God would He be if He did not give man the opportunity to place his faith in the Lord?

This is still a very difficult concept to grasp. We can only cling to what we know about God’s nature and character, trust that His sovereignty and mercy do not contradict one another, and believe that everything He does and/or allows will ultimately be for His glory. We submit ourselves to Him in worship and obedience and trust that He “works all things according to the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11) and that His ways are perfect, even when we don’t understand them. “He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he” (Deuteronomy 32:4).

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Upvote 0

Archaeopteryx

Wanderer
Jul 1, 2007
22,229
2,608
✟78,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Please understand that God does not cause anybody to go to hell. Rather, man chooses to go there on his own.
Can someone not worship Yahweh and choose NOT to go to hell?
You can see the progression of those who reject Christ in the first 3 chapters of the book of Romans. The wrath of God is revealed against the unrighteous because man rejects the Creator and worships the creation (Romans 1:18-20).
Sorry, but not worshipping Yahweh doesn't mean that one worships "the creation," or anything else.
Men profess to be wise in their own eyes (v. 22) and exchange the glory of God for created things. These people then continue in a downward spiral of sin that is listed in verses 28-31, sins to which all of us can relate. Not only do they participate in these sins, but they also approve of those who do them (v. 32). Not only do men have the creation of the world to see God’s power, but they also have their consciences convicting them of their sin (2:14-15). In the end, man is left without excuse that we deserve to die, and we stand condemned in front of God.
The Quran says something similar about you being without excuse. So you'll be converting to Islam I take it?
Jesus Christ came in the flesh so that “you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name” (John 20:30,31). This is another witness to God’s existence and also stands to condemn those men who choose to reject Christ as the Son of God. Because Christ came to pay the price of sin, and He came to “explain the Father” (John 1:18), man has no excuse for rejecting Him.
Other than the lack of evidence?
Men choose to go to hell because they reject Christ, not because God causes them to go there. God has paid the price, revealed Himself to all, and now men are “without excuse” (Romans 1:20).
Again, the Quran says that you are without excuse. So I expect you'll be converting soon?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

KCfromNC

Regular Member
Apr 18, 2007
30,256
17,181
✟545,630.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
If you were to finally grasp why many atheists aren't nihilists, how would that change your thoughts and feelings about those atheists? What would you do with this information?

More interestingly to me is would it make atheism more appealing to him?
 
Upvote 0

Freodin

Devout believer in a theologically different God
Mar 9, 2002
15,713
3,762
Germany, Bavaria, Middle Franconia
Visit site
✟260,281.00
Faith
Atheist
How would you define "love"? Is it a feeling, emotion, or an action?
In my last post, I specifically ask you for your explanation. It seems that you are either unwilling or unable to give one. It also seems that you try to hide this unwillingness / inability behind constant attempts to shift the task of explaning on your opposition.

When we first met, I had certain hopes that you would show yourself as a reasonable and thoughful person. But our interactions have made it quite clear that you are basically not different from people like MennoSota: unable to show a concern for the thoughts of others, resorting to dogmatic assertions instead of reasoning.

You might consider this placing God's glory before "professing yourself to be wise"... but this is exactly the kind of "yes man" behaviour that was mentioned earlier: don't ask questions, profess to be unworthy of understanding and simply agree to everything that some authority tells you.

I thank you for your time, but you have managed nothing but to confirm my experiences with "Christians".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Davian
Upvote 0

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2015
6,133
3,090
✟405,773.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
In my last post, I specifically ask you for your explanation. It seems that you are either unwilling or unable to give

I am trying to answer your question. But first, I need to make sure we both are on the same page on that " love" actually is. Do you think love is an emotion or an action?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Upvote 0

Dave Ellis

Contributor
Dec 27, 2011
8,933
821
Toronto, Ontario
✟59,815.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I am trying to answer your question. But first, I need to make sure we both are on the same page on that " love" actually is. Do you think love is an emotion or an action?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Love is an emotion, however it can be expressed through actions.
 
Upvote 0

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2015
6,133
3,090
✟405,773.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Love is an emotion, however it can be expressed through actions.
If love is an emotion, is it possible to love someone even though you are angry with them? Like a spouse who upset you? Also, can you control your emotions? I can agree that we can control our response to emotions but not the emotion itself. With that being said, if love is an emotion, can we choose to love?
 
Upvote 0

Freodin

Devout believer in a theologically different God
Mar 9, 2002
15,713
3,762
Germany, Bavaria, Middle Franconia
Visit site
✟260,281.00
Faith
Atheist
I am trying to answer your question. But first, I need to make sure we both are on the same page on that " love" actually is. Do you think love is an emotion or an action?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
If you are indeed trying, you have the weirdest method I have ever encountered. And that includes the "Socratic method".

Just look at what you are doing! You are asked for an explanation... and instead ask a question about your opposites view. You get an answer... and instantly start to question your opposite for his reasonings on it.

You are stalling, because you do not have to offer anything on your own. That's all.
 
Upvote 0

Dave Ellis

Contributor
Dec 27, 2011
8,933
821
Toronto, Ontario
✟59,815.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
CA-Conservatives
If love is an emotion, is it possible to love someone even though you are angry with them? Like a spouse who upset you?

Sure, love and anger aren't mutually exclusive.

Also, can you control your emotions? I can agree that we can control our response to emotions but not the emotion itself. With that being said, if love is an emotion, can we choose to love?

No, falling in love, or getting angry at something are natural responses that are not made consciously. How you express those feelings are a conscious decision though.
 
Upvote 0

Dave Ellis

Contributor
Dec 27, 2011
8,933
821
Toronto, Ontario
✟59,815.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Nihilists in denial.

I'm not a nihilist, and I don't know any atheists that could consider themselves nihilists.

If you ask me, the belief that we're all wretched sinners who are fundamentally unworthy of, and incapable of being good is the closest position to nihilism I know of.

I do know plenty of Christians that hold that belief.
 
Upvote 0

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 14, 2015
6,133
3,090
✟405,773.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No, falling in love, or getting angry at something are natural responses that are not made consciously. How you express those feelings are a conscious decision though.

Ok, I see where you are coming from . I agree in part but not entirely. Here is why. I believe that Greek is in some ways superior to English or Latin because it has many more words in its vocabulary. Many words that were used in the NT Greek did not have an English equivalent. "Love" is an example. There are three types of love used in the NT Greek.
Eros is a Greek term which actually means desire and longing. And according to the Greek methodology, Eros is the name of the Greek god of love. Also referred to as erotic love, this is a selfish kind of love as it associated with sexual love. Eros love is based on the strong feeling we have against one another and it usually develops during the 1st stage of a romantic relationship. This kind of love is based on the physical traits. And unless it is redeemed by the Lord’s presence; this type of love can end up being possessive, since it always seeks to 1st conquer and then control.

God created physical attraction between a man & a woman, but He never intended for it to be selfish. He created desire and longing which makes up sexual love which is crucial in any marriage. This love was meant to be preserved between a couple and it is essential for any health marriage. And since it is mostly based on self-benefit, many people tend to fall out of love if they are not happy with the marriage.

Philos love is a unique kind of love like the one you have for a companion or pal. It refers to loving one another just like your brother or sister. This love is for a pal who is really close and dear to us and it is characterized by various different shared experiences between two people. In fact this is the kind of love that many Christians tend to practice towards one another. And although philos love is really wonderful, it is not that much reliable, since it can end up souring at times as we have all experienced at some point in our lives.

Agape love is a special term which represents the divine-love of the Lord towards his Son Jesus Christ, the human beings and all believers. This is the best of the three types of love in the bible, in fact Jesus himself showed this type of divine love to his Dad in heaven and humanity. Agape love is the love that God commanded all believers to have for everyone whether he/she is a believer or not. Agape love should never be determined by our feelings; it is more of a set of behaviors or actions. With agape, you do not have to actually feel it for you to give it, which means that you can be able to show love without feeling anything at all. At times feelings can follow after showing this kind of love.

“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails” (1 Corinthians 13:4-8a). What do you notice about everything that Paul uses to explain what love (agape) is and is not? They are all actions that we can choose or choose not to do. More specifically, anytime you put another's needs ahead of your own, you are demonstrating (Agape) love for that person. "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's love for one's friends." (John 15:13) Once again, this "greatest love" is an action... not a feeling.

Before I move on further, can we come to an understanding about what type of love we are talking about? I have to make sure we are both on the same page before I continue.
 
Upvote 0

FrumiousBandersnatch

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2009
15,405
8,144
✟349,292.00
Faith
Atheist
  • Like
Reactions: Archaeopteryx
Upvote 0