Is Everything Black and White?

[cher1515]

Are all issues in conservative politics always black or white- but no gray areas for debate on a issue? Where do you draw the line?

 

[MrJim]

Most of us draw lines in different places~you might be surprised how gray the areas would be amongst us "conservatives" HA, one person's conservative is another's liberal

 

[JPPT1974]

When things get so heated
And out of line
That is where you have to draw the line!

 

[Rhamiel]

I used to see the world in blck and white, and in a sense it still is, there is good and evil, but a lot of issues are very complex and there is a lot of room for debate in politics.

 

[~free~]

I find that sometimes the more I learn, the more grey I find.

 

[edie19]

definitely depends on the issue

there are absolute truths and yes, those absolutes influence my politics at times

however there are a lot of issues I'm not as clear on or am willing to compromise on

and then, of course, there are things that I'd like to see but recognize that I probably never will - so am willing to leave those things on a back burner - but if I ever find a politician who supports those things - WOW

 

[BAFRIEND]

You only get into shades of gray when you ignore that what you are doing wrong is out of selfish personal pleasure or gain.

The answer is always there.

 

[Criada]

I am not sure about that.. some situations are harder to judge.
I know God always has a 'right' answer... but sometimes humans can make such a mess that it's very hard to sort out 'black and white'.


As to the conservative issue.... I am regularly called a liberal by conservatives, and a conservative by liberals.....

 

[AngelusSax]

There is tension (or grey, if you will), in the world, and even in the Bible itself (the same God who commands no killing also sanctions genocide in the Old Testament, let's just call what it is what it is).

There is also black. There is also white. Much of the grey may even be a product of the Fall. If you start out with white, add a little black, then it doesn't matter how much more white you put in, all you'll get is a different shade of grey.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Are all issues in conservative politics always black or white- but no gray areas for debate on a issue? Where do you draw the line?

Alrighty, this is clearly about conservative politics, not conservative theology. And that's cool, because a lot of us here (myself included) are politically on the Right (though in my case, Libertarian-Right). When we're talking politics, I'd say there's a lot more gray than in theology, because in politics we're dealing mostly with things of man, not of God, and we can't just refer to the Bible for all our solutions. One classic definition of politics is "the art of the possible", recognizing that getting anything done in politics involves persuasion and compromise.

I'm a neolibertarian, and these are some guidelines I use:

When given a set of policy choices,

• The choice that maximizes personal liberty is the best choice.
• The policy choice that offers the least amount of necessary government intervention or regulation is the best choice.
• The policy choice that provides rational, market-basedincentives is the best choice.

In foreign policy, neolibertarianism would be characterized by,

• A policy of diplomacy that promotes consensual government and human rights and opposes dictatorship.
• A policy of using US military force solely at the discretion of the US, but only in circumstances where American interests are directly affected.

(Credit to Dale Franks for thinking those up).

 

[Nadiine]

I think there's gray in politics - however, anyone making a decision should be aware of their internal motive when making any decision.
The source of the principle will often be right or wrong imho. (ie. is it being done for greed? etc.)

I also think that in politics, we don't have as many options due to current circumstances/situations... you may only have 2 choices and not like either of them & have to go for the lesser of the 2 evils.

I was forced into that in Calif. elections for Governor. I had a pro choice candidate (Arnold) and a very conservative one (McKlintock) - only we all knew McClintoc wouldn't get the majority vote in Cal. becuz he's FAR too conservative even tho he was the best suited for the job.
I had to vote Arnold which went against my pro choice standard - becuz my vote would have been thrown away on McKlintock, and a worse democrat with a horrible record would of gotten elected (being such a democratic state).............
what could I do? So...... there's gray for sure. It bothers me, but I think that's the nature of dealing with human problems we get ourselves into.

 

[MrJim]

I think there's gray in politics - however, anyone making a decision should be aware of their internal motive when making any decision.
The source of the principle will often be right or wrong imho. (ie. is it being done for greed? etc.)

I also think that in politics, we don't have as many options due to current circumstances/situations... you may only have 2 choices and not like either of them & have to go for the lesser of the 2 evils.

I was forced into that in Calif. elections for Governor. I had a pro choice candidate (Arnold) and a very conservative one (McKlintock) - only we all knew McClintoc wouldn't get the majority vote in Cal. becuz he's FAR too conservative even tho he was the best suited for the job.
I had to vote Arnold which went against my pro choice standard - becuz my vote would have been thrown away on McKlintock, and a worse democrat with a horrible record would of gotten elected (being such a democratic state).............
what could I do? So...... there's gray for sure. It bothers me, but I think that's the nature of dealing with human problems we get ourselves into.

 

[MrJim]

In considering compromise~does being an American citizen trump being a Kingdom citizen? Being presented with two poor choices, is God telling to choose the lesser of two evils, or is it Americanism?

 

[Nadiine]

In considering compromise~does being an American citizen trump being a Kingdom citizen? Being presented with two poor choices, is God telling to choose the lesser of two evils, or is it Americanism?

neither - it's called previous 'wrongs' set up further ones with no proper solution being offered in a/by a sinful world.

 

[Nadiine]

.

 

[MrJim]

neither - it's called previous 'wrongs' set up further ones with no proper solution being offered in a/by a sinful world.

How much of our expectations are upon proper solutions from a sinful world

I guess some folks have "hope" that these politicians can fix things...seems to just get worse...

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

How much of our expectations are upon proper solutions from a sinful world

I guess some folks have "hope" that these politicians can fix things...seems to just get worse...

It ain't gonna happen. The world isn't perfect and can't be perfect, not 'til Christ returns. But we do what we can to try to make it better, and those efforts are of some use.

As with Nadine's tough choice in CA, sometimes the best we can do is to choose the lesser evil. If I had been in CA, I too would've preferred McClintock in the primary... but I would also have pulled the lever for Schwarzenegger, knowing that he could win, but McClintock couldn't.

We're going to have a similar choice this November: McCain (a centrist Republican) or either of two very liberal Democrats. I'm sure McCain isn't the first choice for most conservatives, but he's going to be a lot better than the alternative.

I live in WA, which may or may not be in play this year. Since the Electoral College is winner-take-all-by-state, if WA is a foregone conclusion, I may just vote Libertarian Party, as I've done in many previous elections -- but I'll only do that if I'm sure it won't affect the result.

I keep my ideals firmly in mind, but I choose a way to implement them that has a strong chance of success. That was Ronald Reagan's strategy, and I think he's a pretty good role model. (I'm not saying he was the perfect conservative, but he was an extraordinarily effective one.)

 

[Nadiine]

You have to realize too, that in voting in that election, there are things to consider:

abortion is NOT going to be up for any change in Calif. by a liberal state!
A governor isn't going to change abortion laws for this state - or bother seeking to.

Abortion was basically a non issue in the Gov. election.
AND, the democrate who stood to win if the Repub. didn't was also pro abortion...

It wouldn't of mattered. I don't just casually vote for someone who's pro choice - I had that choice or not to vote at all which I refuse to do.

Lots is involved w/ strategy on different elections.

Lastly, I didn't know what I was doing was something Reagan used. KOOL lol

 

[Nadiine]

Izdarri... I'm concerned that we seem to find more agreement recently.
I'm wondering if I'm getting too liberal or if you're swinging a little bit more towards fundamental conservatism.

hahhaa

 

[Anglian]

To Caesar we render those things which are his; to God those which are His. Being sinful human beings we can't always get this distinction correct.

Would a Christian theocratic state really suit us? The Roman Empire post-Constantine? The later Eastern Roman Empire? The Papal States? The Romanov Empire? Perhaps all these examples show is that Christianity has been tried and proved to be too hard for the Princes of this world. How difficult the first have found it to be last; how hard to be the servant of the servants of God.

But for us, in the West, to be Christians in societies where the values we once took for granted as underpinning those societies now seem under threat from aggressive secular relativism (which is relative about everything that is not liberal), nostalgia for a past golden age can blind us to the shortcomings of Christian states in the past.

As so often, Izdaari (from whom I learn so much) seems to express a position where Christians can find a meeting place.

He is Risen Indeed!

Anglian
(today is Orthodox Pascha)