Is Everybody going to heaven?

[Floatingaxe]

It all depends if you are a pre or a post or an amillenialist. I personally do not believe in the millenium, but that does not mean I am right. I believe the coming of the Lord Jesus will be a one time event wrapping up history, but nowhere else in the NT speaks about this millenial reign for 1,000 years. You could say qualities of that reign are happening now, but obviously no mass resurrection has not happened yet! Events will tell!

Revelation 20 teaches us about the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ. You cannot deny it.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Svt4Him]

You can pretty much deny anything if you try hard enough!

 

[Svt4Him]

Oh, just ignore this one...

 

[Floatingaxe]

Oh, just ignore this one...

 

[Faulty]

Revelation 20 teaches us about the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ. You cannot deny it.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

So does Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Zechariah in case anyone cares to take a peek. It takes more than a bit of work to deny it if one bothers to study it.

 

[LeadWorship]

So does Ezekiel, Isaiah, and Zechariah in case anyone cares to take a peek. It takes more than a bit of work to deny it if one bothers to study it.

That's the problem though. So many christians don't care to study it, not like it should be. Too many times the preacher on TV or the one in the pulpit tells "christians" their take on things as gospel truth and people are left to decide things based on what someone else believes. These people honor Him with their lips, not by their lifestyle. That's what an unbelieving world finds unbelievable.

 

[enoch son]

Don't worry! I have made a very in depth study.

I would be happy to take this up in the general theology forum with you.

2: Corinthians 5:8 must be looked in the light of 1 Corinthians 15. All Paul was stating is for his next waking moment (resurrection at the last day, to him a blink in the eye. To the rest of us, he is still in the grave), all contradictions with Daniel 12:2 and Acts 2:34 are completely removed.

Luke 23:43. Jesus promised the thief he would be in paradise with him. Not that very day, because we know Jesus was in the grave (hades, sheol). There is no punctuation in the Greek so one could say so the bible again does not contradict itself; "I am telling you today, you will be in paradise".
You will read that Jesus told Mary not to touch him, because he had not yet ascended to the Father and that was AFTER the resurrection.

The Hebrew model of resurrection completely blows away the Greek pagan idea that the soul is immortal as you will not find 'immortal' or 'eternal' attributed to the Hebrew word 'Nephesh' so which so much the disembodied existence view is based upon. What the Hebrews believed that death WAS NOT extinction, but the weakest form of life in Sheol. The dead person in the grave was not immaterial, but insubstantial. The became 'Rephaim', no longer 'Nephesh'.

Jesus promised eternal life and immortality is a gift (Romans 6:23) and we will get new resurrection bodies (1 cor 15).

If one goes to heaven immediately upon death, then really what is the point of resurrection? Paul argued against the Corinthian faction who believed there was no resurrection and that people went to either heaven or hell immediately (Obvious consequence of non-belief in the resurrection).

I for one can understand were you are coming from and can see why one would believe it.
but Jesus said "The kingdom of heaven is with in you" so heaven is already here. So if hevean is here then the trash dump is here (hell)
as for resurrection it only means to STAND UP AGIAN. It is writtern we are seated in heavenly places in christ jesus. I was dead in the law of sin and death (Adam-Moses) but stood up agian in Christ and made alive. No were in the word can I fine that God doesn't make the whole creation alive in him. The word point in the very different direction. It say's ALL are coming to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Floatingaxe]

It say's ALL are coming to the knowledge of the truth.

That is false. IT doesn't say anything like that... the Word says that it is God's desire that all come to be saved. That doesn't mean that all will and that shoots down your Universalist fairy tale.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Mikecpking]

I for one can understand were you are coming from and can see why one would believe it.
but Jesus said "The kingdom of heaven is with in you" so heaven is already here. So if hevean is here then the trash dump is here (hell)

Yes, in essence, the kingdom of God (God's rule) is in every believer. God's Kingdom is about rule and not realm.

as for resurrection it only means to STAND UP AGIAN. It is writtern we are seated in heavenly places in christ jesus. I was dead in the law of sin and death (Adam-Moses) but stood up agian in Christ and made alive. No were in the word can I fine that God doesn't make the whole creation alive in him. The word point in the very different direction. It say's ALL are coming to the knowledge of the truth.

Resurrection is the key difference between Christianity/Herbrew and other religions. This will be an event when 'parousia' takes place. To us as believers who die before this event takes place, it would be as if no time had elapsed. As for being made alive is about the regenerative process from spiritual rebirth as opposed to getting a resurrection body immediately!

 

[noachian]

Typical, 76 people vote literal hell compared to 20 who voted otherwise.

I believe that Heaven and Hell are what we make of them. Is it not the soul that is challanged here in life? Do we not create hell with our own demons or heaven with our own angels? I believe there is an after-life, but that it is much more inclusive than people would like to think.

I vote; there is no hell.... there is only Love, and Forgivenss and Reconciliation.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Typical, 76 people vote literal hell compared to 20 who voted otherwise.

I believe that Heaven and Hell are what we make of them. Is it not the soul that is challanged here in life? Do we not create hell with our own demons or heaven with our own angels? I believe there is an after-life, but that it is much more inclusive than people would like to think.

I vote; there is no hell.... there is only Love, and Forgivenss and Reconciliation.

No--hell makes this life with all its horrors look like a picnic.

If one doesn't want to believe what God Himself says about it, fine, but that doesn't mean one is right--it means one is foolish.

No wonder the poll is more in tune with the Word of God--more Christians are believing God and not some drummed up fairy tale.

 

[Svt4Him]

Typical, 76 people vote literal hell compared to 20 who voted otherwise.

I believe that Heaven and Hell are what we make of them. Is it not the soul that is challanged here in life? Do we not create hell with our own demons or heaven with our own angels? I believe there is an after-life, but that it is much more inclusive than people would like to think.

I vote; there is no hell.... there is only Love, and Forgivenss and Reconciliation.

Don't forget justice, as God is just.

 

[DeborahsSong]

No wonder the poll is more in tune with the Word of God--more Christians are believing God and not some drummed up fairy tale.

OH, IF POLLS ARE SIGNIFICANT, THEN CONSIDER THE EARLY CHURCH AND WHAT THE CHURCH HISTORIAN GEISLER HAD TO SAY:

"The belief in the inalienable capability of improvement in all rational beings, and the limited duration of future punishment was so general, even in the West, and among the opponents of Origen, that it seems entirely independent of his system" (Eccles. Hist., 1-212).

SINCE ORIGEN TAUGHT THAT ALL WOULD BE SAVED, THIS "DRUMMED UP FAIRY TALE" WAS THE PREVALENT BELIEF OF THE EARLY CHURCH, A CHURCH WHERE THE WORD OF GOD WAS YET UNCORRUPTED BY THE MISTRANSLATIONS OF THE LATIN VULGATE AND ST AUGUSTINE.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The Word of God is against those beliefs...

Psalm 1:4-6
But not the wicked!
They are like worthless chaff, scattered by the wind.
They will be condemned at the time of judgment.
Sinners will have no place among the godly.
For the Lord watches over the path of the godly,
but the path of the wicked leads to destruction.


When people stop believing what God says and let reason interfere, which is Satan's game, then doom is the outcome. Reasoning is dangerous to faith.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5
We are human, but we don’t wage war as humans do.We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments.We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

 

[enoch son]

The Word of God is against those beliefs...

Psalm 1:4-6
But not the wicked!
They are like worthless chaff, scattered by the wind.
They will be condemned at the time of judgment.
Sinners will have no place among the godly.
For the Lord watches over the path of the godly,
but the path of the wicked leads to destruction.


When people stop believing what God says and let reason interfere, which is Satan's game, then doom is the outcome. Reasoning is dangerous to faith.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5
We are human, but we don’t wage war as humans do.We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments.We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

WHAT STRONGHOLDS OF HUMAN REASONING DO YOU THINK WE ARE SAYING IS FALSE? DO YOU THINK THE IDEA THAT GOD IS NOT ALL LOVING COULD BE AT THE TOP OF THE LIST?

 

[DeborahsSong]

We're not saying that the wicked and sinners are going "to heaven", but that they will undergo a change of state where they will cease to be wicked and sinners. Chaff is burnt, but the seed it covered is what's important.

Also, when it comes to "drummed up fairy tales", the pagan philosophers held that myths of endless torment in the afterlife should be formented and transmitted to act as restraints upon the masses. When Christianity became the state religion, these unconverted, deluded pagans brought these beliefs with them. Church leaders, who among themselves acknowledged universalism, found the myths of torment and endless punishment useful in restraining the uneducated masses. So, they encouraged them. This is the doctrine of restraint.

The church also came to find this mythology very profitable. This motive and the mistranslations of the Latin Vulgate and St Augustine produced the current mythology we have today in the church. As Rome and Latin became prominent, the true meaning of the original Greek text was obsured.

 

[Floatingaxe]

WHAT STRONGHOLDS OF HUMAN REASONING DO YOU THINK WE ARE SAYING IS FALSE? DO YOU THINK THE IDEA THAT GOD IS NOT ALL LOVING COULD BE AT THE TOP OF THE LIST?

Please cease with the caps.

The stronghold of reasoning that is purveyed here is the error of the Universalist that says that God is all-loving and nothing else. It is a lop-sided view of God who is a perfect God who has all character and personality traits. They can best be seen in Jesus--He was perfect in every way--He loved, yet He hated evil perfectly and He was angry perfectly without sinning. Universalists deny that part of God, and stick to their rosy picture of the fairy-tale idol of a god which doesn't exist.

 

[DeborahsSong]

FA, where do you get your notion that universalists are rosy optimists!!!!!!!! Myself and the ones I know come out of traditional doctrine LIKE YOURS. We had the intestinal fortitude to handle your beliefs for decades. We just learned that they didn't fit what scripture really says, and that is what we care about.

 

[Floatingaxe]

FA, where do you get your notion that universalists are rosy optimists!!!!!!!! Myself and the ones I know come out of traditional doctrine LIKE YOURS. We had the intestinal fortitude to handle your beliefs for decades. We just learned that they didn't fit what scripture really says, and that is what we care about.

There is no need for intestinal fortitude to believe the truth about who God is.

Does that mean you lost your intestinal fortitude, then, and now are into easy believism as I have often suggested?

What Universalists believe is not Scriptural in the least. In fact, in the checklist that Freedom in Christ Ministires puts out for those who want deliverance and freedom in Christ, Universalism is on their list of things that must be renounced! It is an insidious doctrine and leads people away from God, and into their doctrine concocted by people who have given their minds over to demonic influence.

It is just like Satan to feed a little truth in with his huge dose of lies--it makes the man with the wobbly faith rely on his own reason, rather than what God says.

 

[Floatingaxe]

We're not saying that the wicked and sinners are going "to heaven", but that they will undergo a change of state where they will cease to be wicked and sinners. Chaff is burnt, but the seed it covered is what's important.

That is a lie of the devil as well. Nowhere will any wicked person ever undergo a "change" unless he comes to repentance and makes Jesus his Saviour and Lord and lives for Him. If he dies before he repents, he has lost his opportunity. One's hope for salvation is only while alive.