Is Evangelicalism a false religion?

[Ceallaigh]

In a thread I started in the Eastern Orthodox section, I asked about their view on works. And I got a great response where the word actions was used. It's not works that save us or keep us saved. But our actions speak of our salvation.

Our belief in the gospel is one of those actions / reactions. Prayer is another. Really any response to God. We refrain from doing something because the Holy Spirit said "don't do that, don't go there". Or we feel convicted over something because of the Holy Spirit speaking to us. There's so many actions and reactions I've experienced as a result of being saved. The Holy Spirit prompts us to do something good and we follow through.

Here's the post:

My ignorant and probably incredibly flawed analogy is as follows:

Beliefs incur certain actions. If I say to you that I think democracy is the greatest system of governance in history, you might infer from this that I participate in this system with the act of voting. If, when asked if I vote, my response was to say 'nah I don't see any point in it' then you might legitimately question my belief in democracy. It's easy to say we believe things, but our actions betray what we really believe.

Thus, works are the actions that we are called to make as a consequence of our faith. Works are the expression of belief in action. For instance Christ calls us to love our neighbour. If we aren't trying to do this in our actions, and struggling to put it into practise in our lives, how can we say that we really believe in Him?

 

[misput]

What then? Explain your statement below. How do you measure inspiration?

misput said: ↑
The idea that one man is more inspired than another, as far as the truth is concerned, does not ring true to me

By whether it rings true or not. Of course this becomes, just my opinion. Only God has the true measure.

 

[Ceallaigh]

What man "tries to do" in faith is not "dead works"? What is then?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Isn't that called "dead works"? Wood, hay and stubble. Destined to burned up in the corrective fire of God's judgement?

I've come to believe that Paul was talking about church building. Especially regarding the church in Corenth. Rather than it having to do with the works of the individual deciple.

 

[Saint Steven]

That is what we are all working on.

How so?
What did you mean when you wrote: "Since this scripture is inspired of God, I expect it includes every Word we have from God." ?

Saint Steven said: ↑
What lives between the bookends: "... every Word we have from God."?

 

[Saint Steven]

By whether it rings true or not. Of course this becomes, just my opinion. Only God has the true measure.

Rings true based on what?

 

[Saint Steven]

I've come to believe that Paul was talking about church building. Especially regarding the church in Corenth. Rather than it having to do with the works of the individual deciple.

Let's review the context. Or, how did you come to that conclusion?

Saint Steven said: ↑
What man "tries to do" in faith is not "dead works"? What is then?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Isn't that called "dead works"? Wood, hay and stubble. Destined to burned up in the corrective fire of God's judgement?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Let's review the context. Or, how did you come to that conclusion?

Saint Steven said: ↑
What man "tries to do" in faith is not "dead works"? What is then?

Saint Steven said: ↑
Isn't that called "dead works"? Wood, hay and stubble. Destined to burned up in the corrective fire of God's judgement?

Someone in another thread pointed it out, when I said the worst thing to me about having all my works burn up would be the look of disappointment on Jesus' face. He said, that didn't apply to me, but rather Paul was talking about himself and teachers who build a church up. I Re-read 1 Corentheans 3 and it seemed to fit.

I think what James was saying is faith without actions is dead as in useless, rather than anything about dead works. And "without" meaning none at all. As in zero actions.

 

[Clare73]

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Agreed. . .that's why James must not be interpreted in contradiction to Paul, who received his revelation from Jesus Christ personally in the third heaven (2Co 12:1-5). James was not so instructed.

 

[misput]

What man "tries to do" in faith is not "dead works"? What is then?

Any part of what he tries to do that is not good. The trying is always blessed.

 

[Saint Steven]

Condescension is unbecoming.

Gentle CPR does not raise the dead.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Your post is a great example of the Protestant bubble. The echo chamber of Evangelical thought. The closed system of a feedback loop of dogma. The Christian that is lost in the wilderness with no compass, or a historical map; wandering in circles with only a half canteen of water left. Saying, "I'm not lost, this is the way."

 

[Saint Steven]

Any part of what he tries to do that is not good. The trying is always blessed.

Where did you get that idea?

Saint Steven said: ↑
What man "tries to do" in faith is not "dead works"? What is then?

 

[Ceallaigh]

The ironic thing is John MacArthur has also been accused of teaching salvation by works. I'm currently reading a blog about it. So he's basically making the same false accusation against Eastern Orthodoxy, that's been made against him.

And that's because he didn't dig deeper into what all EO teaches. And those who accuse MacArthur don't dig deep enough into what all he teaches.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Agreed. . .that's why James must not be interpreted in contradiction to Paul, who received his revelation from Jesus Christ personally in the third heaven (2Co 12:1-5). James was not so instructed.

All I think James is saying is that faith without actions is useless. It doesn't benefit the person or others or serve God in any way. And again I focus on the word "without" as in nothing at all. Not as in you have to do a bunch of works. But as in absolutely zero works.

Whereas I think Paul was saying salvation isn't a brownie point system.

 

[Saint Steven]

Someone in another thread pointed it out, when I said the worst thing to me about having all my works burn up would be the look of disappointment on Jesus' face. He said, that didn't apply to me, but rather Paul was talking about himself and teachers who build a church up. I Re-read 1 Corentheans 3 and it seemed to fit.

I think what James was saying is faith without actions is dead as in useless, rather than anything about dead works. And "without" meaning none at all. As in zero actions.

I don't think Jesus will be disappointed in us any more than a doctor who is working toward our healing, or a merciful judge that understands or situation. He was human too, you know. He is as empathetic as he is sympathetic. IMHO

 

[misput]

Agreed. . .that's why James must not be interpreted in contradiction to Paul, who received his revelation from Jesus Christ personally in the third heaven (2Co 12:1-5). James was not so instructed.

Are you saying Pauls revelation is more reliable than the other authors of the scriptures?

 

[Ceallaigh]

I don't think Jesus will be disappointed in us any more than a doctor who is working toward our healing, or a merciful judge that understands or situation. He was human too, you know. He is as empathetic as he is sympathetic. IMHO

I agree. I just meant I'm mainly interested in pleasing Jesus.

 

[Saint Steven]

I agree. I just meant I'm mainly interested in pleasing Jesus.

You have a heart of gold.

I'm heading to work. Have a golden day.

 

[Ceallaigh]

You have a heart of gold.

I'm heading to work. Have a golden day.

You too.
I'm getting ready to clock out

 

[Clare73]

The OT, of course.

There is indication in the NT that "Scripture" may have meant more than just the OT.

We find Peter grouping Paul's writings with "the other Scriptures" (2Pe 3:16), and
Paul (1Tim 5:18) considering Luke's writings (Lk 10:7, "wages," used only in Luke's writing of that passage) to be equal in authority to the OT Scriptures.

 

[misput]

So, God knew what he meant, but you don't know what he meant? Why would you claim it was a reference to the NT canon then? (since you are uncertain) Because Evangelicalism says so, right? Is that actually your authority? The Evangelical apologetic as authoritative.

mark46 said: ↑
Was Timothy really talking about a set of volumes that would be approve 300 years after him?

You have misunderstood my post. My fault, sorry.