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I'm not giving input, I'm just asking a simple question. How do you know the way they're built is the best way they could be? If a baker said he made the best cake, and I asked him what made his cake the best, he would just tell me what made his the best based on his criteria. If you say something the best, you have to have some method of judging it as such.
So then when you said it was the best, you were saying that in your opinion and based on your limited experience, it was the best. And what someone else thinks, even the Designer, doesn't matter. Good to know.
You would have to taste every cake in the world? WHY?
So, let me make it real simple for you. You would have a group of tasters in different locations in different countries, tasting cakes on your behalf.
There is nothing any better to match them against, so how can they NOT be the best?
Because if I didn't, I'm not actually saying it's the best, overall, I'm just saying it's the best I've tasted. There's no way I can know there aren't better cakes out there. My experiences are limited to the cakes I've tasted.
And even they wouldn't be able to taste every single cake in the world. It would still be only limited to their experiences. There's still no way to tell it's the best cake, period.
It's not that there's nothing any better to match them against, there's nothing at all. Saying something is the 'best' implies there's some competition. There isn't any, here. How do you know there's no, as of yet undiscovered, flight system that would work better? Whether or not we can think of anything better is irrelevant - that doesn't make it the 'best'.
So, again, what criteria are you using to judge that it's the 'best', and what are you comparing it to?
I've already told you. They are the best on the Earth for their task of flying.
What is more aerodynamically designed?
Another one steps in. Perhaps YOU can give an example then of a better aerodynamic life form, one better than birds which fly? Just one that is better than birds will do, which will make birds not the best. How about something better than an Eagle with its good vision, speed, agility and can soar on thermals to save energy.
Show me where the ACLU (Antichrist Lovers Union) had to get involved in getting someone sued for teaching against Santa Claus.
First, my post was in response to one specific post of yours, wherein you refused to justify your position on certain grounds. And all I did was point out that those grounds, as you stated them, indicated that your opinion ranked even higher than God's. It was a comment on your specific argument in that specific post.
However, I will accept the challenge if, as in your debate with lasthero, "best" refers to "the best of all possible worlds." Because I can imagine better flyers than the birds and bees in our world. The aerodynamics of man-made aircraft began in imitation of flying creatures --mainly airplanes in imitation of birds -- but they don't stop there.
VTOL and hovering are not possible (except in specific and unusual wind conditions) in anything in nature larger than a hummingbird. Because the creature (hummingbird, bumble bee, hummingbird moth) needs to beat its wings so fast that a larger creature's larger wing would shatter. In artificial flyers, we get around this by exploiting other aerodynamic principles, and so we have the Osprey aircraft and the helicopter.
Even in straight flight, in direct competion to designs based on (and improved from) the basic "bird-shaped" airplane, the design which prvides maximum speed and fuel efficiency is the delta wing, which has no direct counterpart in nature.
So if it were just a matter of design, and nature allowed for animals that could not have evolved incrementally, it is easy to imagine delta-winged flying animals, or rotary-winged hoverers, etc. The eagle is the best flyer nature has produced precisely because it was produced by natural means -- by evolution.
This is something we run into with batteries. The lithium battery for example does not lose power until the very end. This makes lithium very good for flash photography. There is no advantage to putting lithium in a clock because they do not last any longer so there is no reason to pay the extra money. So what is best or longest lasting for one application may not be best for another.If you say something the best, you have to have some method of judging it as such.
Um ... just as a reminder of my OP:[serious];64264429 said:It was central to Lynch v. Donnelly. I'm not sure if the ACLU was in anyway involved in that case, but since that was not a requirement of the OP, I'll leave it to you to dig into that question.
I somehow don't think Lynch v. Donnelly qualifies here.If creationism is a fairy tale, what other fairy tale has generated so much debate and gotten so much attention in the academic world?
Birds have evolved the best way for flight because there is nothing better.
First, my post was in response to one specific post of yours, wherein you refused to justify your position on certain grounds. And all I did was point out that those grounds, as you stated them, indicated that your opinion ranked even higher than God's. It was a comment on your specific argument in that specific post.
However, I will accept the challenge if, as in your debate with lasthero, "best" refers to "the best of all possible worlds." Because I can imagine better flyers than the birds and bees in our world. The aerodynamics of man-made aircraft began in imitation of flying creatures --mainly airplanes in imitation of birds -- but they don't stop there.
VTOL and hovering are not possible (except in specific and unusual wind conditions) in anything in nature larger than a hummingbird. Because the creature (hummingbird, bumble bee, hummingbird moth) needs to beat its wings so fast that a larger creature's larger wing would shatter. In artificial flyers, we get around this by exploiting other aerodynamic principles, and so we have the Osprey aircraft and the helicopter.
Even in straight flight, in direct competion to designs based on (and improved from) the basic "bird-shaped" airplane, the design which prvides maximum speed and fuel efficiency is the delta wing, which has no direct counterpart in nature.
So if it were just a matter of design, and nature allowed for animals that could not have evolved incrementally, it is easy to imagine delta-winged flying animals, or rotary-winged hoverers, etc. The eagle is the best flyer nature has produced precisely because it was produced by natural means -- by evolution.
This has to do with lift. The math has to be exact. If you want to build an airplane you got to get it right.How do you know they're absolutely perfect?
In your opinion.
Pterasaurs could fly. Insects can fly, and were the first creature to get the ability. Bats can fly. Why are birds better than all of these? Heck, which birds in particular are you referring to? Not all birds can fly, and not all birds can fly very well. Even among eagles, how do you know that there's absolutely no room for improvement when it comes to bird flight? How do you know they're absolutely perfect?
I never said they are perfect, I said they are the best. Perhaps you aren't grasping this. They are the best there is, there is nothing better. Of course there are birds that can't fly, but plenty can, so they are the best. If one morning I woke up with a different skeletal and muscle structure, feathers, wings and a tail and could fly at supersonic speed with incredible agility, then I would be the best there is. Why are you making this so difficult?
In your opinion.
Pterasaurs could fly. Insects can fly, and were the first creature to get the ability. Bats can fly. Why are birds better than all of these? Heck, which birds in particular are you referring to? Not all birds can fly, and not all birds can fly very well. Even among eagles, how do you know that there's absolutely no room for improvement when it comes to bird flight? How do you know they're absolutely perfect?
I never said they are perfect, I said they are the best.
How do you know birds existed after insects?
How on Earth, did I indicate my rankings were higher than Gods? LOL
Because insects appear in the geologic column long, LONG before any birds or even reptiles show up.
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