Is Creation Science heresy?

[masnergy]

Did Jesus not teach us through scripture? If your faith is in that then your previous statement would be that Jesus taught in error. Which would make your whole faith no longer relevant. Re-think what you just said. Jesus is perfect, so were his teachings.

 

[Captain_Jack_Sparrow]

Did Jesus not teach us through scripture?

Yes - but what as that to do with the debates on here where people are using Scripture for what it is not.

Scripture - spiritual guide - Yes.

Scripture - scientific/historical account of Creation - No.

 

[lucaspa]

How can the proof of a God, creation or otherwise, be considered herosy?

Because, in makin this false "proof", Creation Science separated the God of Creation from the God of Love and Salvation in the Bible. Didn't you read the OP? The God that created is the same God that Jesus preached about. Yet Creation Scientists said that the God that created could no longer exist! Christianity says that is not possible. But Creation Science says it is possible! That's heresy.

We as Christians should be uniting and using the truths and proofs to show the other faiths and beliefs out there, the TRUTH.

The problem is that science does not prove the existence of God. To get science to do that is false witness.

Why debate amongst ourselves? The Bible is fact, the Bible is the main tool in both a creationists belief and a conservative christians. Use these two beliefs to become one in Him.

Why debate? Because I'm tired of being embarrassed to be a Christian! I'm tired of having Christianity tied to a "conservative" political agenda that goes against everything Jesus taught! I'm tired of having Christianity hijacked into false idol worship (with "the Bible is fact" being the false idol) and being embarrassed because Biblical literalists end up denying that God created and ignoring God's Creation.

 

[lucaspa]

Did Jesus not teach us through scripture?

Jesus taught, and some of what he taught got written down and is considered scripture.

Jesus is perfect, so were his teachings.

1. Jesus did not teach science. When he used Genesis 1-11, he did so to illustrate a theological point, not say Genesis 1-11 was literally true.
2. Jesus was also fully human and, therefore, imperfect. You can't just chuck his human side out the window.

 

[Philip]

The Gnostic and Marcionist heresies were around long before evolution. Creastionism revives those heresies.

Interesting. Care to expand?

 

[lucaspa]

Interesting. Care to expand?

Read the OP. Then, if you still have the question, ask it again. The Marcionist and Gnostic heresies were started in the 2nd century AD.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/6461/2cent.html

 

[artybloke]

How can the proof of a God, creation or otherwise, be considered herosy? We as Christians should be uniting and using the truths and proofs to show the other faiths and beliefs out there, the TRUTH. Why debate amongst ourselves? The Bible is fact, the Bible is the main tool in both a creationists belief and a conservative christians. Use these two beliefs to become one in Him.

This is the rub, though, isn't it? Creation Science is looking for some kind of "proof" of the existence of God by using "scientific method." Sounds like a good idea; except for three things:

1) Science itself can't prove anything. No scientific theory, including gravity, atomic theory, germ theory etc has been proved through deductive reasoning. All the evidence so far has shown that there is a high probablity that all these things are true; but they haven't shown absolute proof.

2) Creation Science has consistently been showed to misuse, distort and positively lie about science in order to try and make the "facts" fit its "theory" (theories should fit facts not the other way round.)

3) Also, of course, science cannot say anything at all, for or against the existence of divine beings, as science's job is to describe this world, not the spiritual world, so it's pointless expecting science to confirm your belief. It's a bit like expecting to ride a bicycle on the Pacific Ocean.

It seems to me to show a tremendous lack of faith to look to science to try and prove the existence of God. Surely these people know God already in their hearts? Why do they need to invent a lot of lies to bolster their beliefs?

As for the Bible being fact, though there is fact in the Bible, there is also a great many other kinds of literature, and these should also be taken into account. God can speak as easily in a fable as in a fact. That doesn't mean it's all fable; just that if Jesus can speak in parables and not be accused of lying then I don't see why the other parts of the Bible can't contain parable too.

 

[lucaspa]

It seems to me to show a tremendous lack of faith to look to science to try and prove the existence of God. Surely these people know God already in their hearts? Why do they need to invent a lot of lies to bolster their beliefs?

This seems to be the rub. Rmills has stated that the Bible is the "foundation" of faith and that we know God only thru the Bible. Gander claims the Bible must be 100% true or 100% false and, if the Bible is false, then God is gone. So it appears that many Biblical literalist do not "know God already in their hearts" but believe only because of the Bible. Therefore they want to get the most reliable form of knowledge around -- science -- to tell them their beliefs are correct.

 

[rmills]

This seems to be the rub. Rmills has stated that the Bible is the "foundation" of faith and that we know God only thru the Bible. Gander claims the Bible must be 100% true or 100% false and, if the Bible is false, then God is gone. So it appears that many Biblical literalist do not "know God already in their hearts" but believe only because of the Bible. Therefore they want to get the most reliable form of knowledge around -- science -- to tell them their beliefs are correct.

Hmmm. I ask the question again but this time in long form. How in the world does one propose to know God without his Word? How does one in this day and age propose to know Jesus without his Word?

I do NOT look to science to prove that my God exists nor that Jesus died on the cross and rose again, or even the reason that Jesus did these things!

How much thinking cap do you use to post stuff like this?

 

[rmills]

Hu? Did Lucaspa run out of slams for the day or what?

I ask the question again but this time in long form. How in the world does one propose to know God without his Word? How does one in this day and age propose to know Jesus without his Word?

 

[Curt]

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Pet 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2 Sam 14:14
14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.
Job 37:24
24 Men do therefore fear him: he respecteth not any that are wise of heart.

Reply

The Christian scientists I have read have proven the 6 day creation, by proving in the lab that the substance that world scientists claim would take millions of years to form can only be formed instantly. I have also read other Christian scientists who have proven many of the stories of places in The Bible. I must be lucky I have not read any Christian scientists who try to teach a theistic evolution or evolution of any kind. But then again I don't waste a whole lot of time reading anything other than The Bible. I have found everything I need to know about anything is in there if I search hard enough.

 

[Captain_Jack_Sparrow]

Huh?

Get out and read some other stuff!

 

[masnergy]

.
2. Jesus was also fully human and, therefore, imperfect. You can't just chuck his human side out the window.

I know that this discussion isn't about the perfection of Jesus, but that really bothers me that a Christian could seriously say that Jesus was imperfect.

 

[Captain_Jack_Sparrow]

I know that this discussion isn't about the perfection of Jesus, but that really bothers me that a Christian could seriously say that Jesus was imperfect.

Oh lighten up.

He probably would have been posted up by Shaquille O'Neal and given up 50 points and 28 rebounds.

We cannot walk around all day being so serious.

Face it - Jesus was a cool Saviour but probably sucked at basketball!

 

[masnergy]

I am not a creation scientist, you can tell by my posts. I do however believe that if there is a belief out there that is trying to mask what our creator has done, we should address that with our scriptural, and if neccessary scientific backing. I don't know all the stories, sounds like there are some questionable statements by the founders of creation science. The debates that I have seen by Kent Hovind have done nothing but strengthen my faith!! I had faith before I saw them. I just now have responces to idiotic questions from people who worship evolution. I do believe that the Bible is completely true, I don't idolize it. My only God is God himself, but to revere a creation of his, a book that He has given to us, can not be considered idolotry. I do not pray to my Bible. I do not worship it. I use it to understand ways of living and history and other things. I do also believe that if we are in a scientific society, and the existance of God is being "proven" to be untrue, that we as Christians have the obligation to Him to spread his "Truths". When Jesus was asked questions of proof, he did not neccessarily just go ok, well i'm going to heal this guy quick, and i'm going to walk on water. He used scripture and reasoning with non believers. If the only reasonings of todays society is science, then we must reason with science. Do you think that God will be happy with us saying, well noone would listen to us that you were real God, they all had proof set before them that you weren't, so I just said well have faith. People who believe that science has proven no existance of a GOd will not listen to "have faith". It is our duty to go throughout the world and spread his word, his word is the Bible. How can all of these things tied together to bring non believers to the Lord be bad? I believe that when the world was said to be round, that people were pesecuted, by the church, only to find out that it was true. Don't let our church commit another largely laughed at mistake as that one. Unite, I'm not saying everything that creation scientists is right, but alteast they are trying to reach a section of people who need Jesus just as much as you and me.

 

[masnergy]

Oh lighten up.

He probably would have been posted up by Shaquille O'Neal and given up 50 points and 28 rebounds.

We cannot walk around all day being so serious.

Face it - Jesus was a cool Saviour but probably sucked at basketball!

When I say perfect I was not refering to worldly stature, I was referring to sin. He was without it, no way around it. To call yourself a Christian, and try to bring Jesus down, in any way to try to justify a false statement is just wrong

 

[Captain_Jack_Sparrow]

Well I come at this from a polar opposite. I don't believe the Bible is totally true - heck it cannot be there are too many inconsistencies. Believing it is all true is idolatry. And if Kent Hovind was all there was to Christianity count me as a Muslim.

And evolution isn't something that is worshipped. Why do people say that. It also isn't = atheism.

And if by Christian scientists you mean Creationists then there reaching to people involves bearing false witness as they are invariably wrong or deliberately telling lies.

 

[Captain_Jack_Sparrow]

When I say perfect I was not refering to worldly stature, I was referring to sin. He was without it, no way around it. To call yourself a Christian, and try to bring Jesus down, in any way to try to justify a false statement is just wrong

It was humour. As I said lighten up. I see you are a Pentecostalist - never a sect renowned for humour.

Joking that Shaq would dunk on Jesus all night long isn't bringing Jesus down - it's a joke - it also would have been a fact - but it was a joke.

As for calling myself a Christian - I could say the same about certain Christian cults that speak in tongues and dance around like lunatics.

 

[masnergy]

Well I come at this from a polar opposite. I don't believe the Bible is totally true - heck it cannot be there are too many inconsistencies. Believing it is all true is idolatry. And if Kent Hovind was all there was to Christianity count me as a Muslim.

And evolution isn't something that is worshipped. Why do people say that. It also isn't = atheism.

And if by Christian scientists you mean Creationists then there reaching to people involves bearing false witness as they are invariably wrong or deliberately telling lies.

How can you believe in Jesus? How do you know about Jesus? Did you just wake up one day and say oh yeah I believe in someone I never heard of? The Bible is the key documentation of history, and Jesus. Again how can you say that believing the Bible is completely true is idolotry, that would be saying that God is not omnipitant and all powerful, by dissing his word to us. I'm not saying that Kent Hovind is all Christianity is. How is evolution not worshipped? They say it is true and praise the evidence that they find, and take God outta the picture, I know one of those commandments is that there is only one god, and only One to be worshipped. And i know it's not atheism, their god is science, untrue science. Please show me where these ivariable wrong and deliberately told lies are. Like i said, I am not a creationist, I just believe in spreading the knowledge of Jesus, and that includes God, that includes God the creator and God of Love and every other name that you want to give to God. True I do not believe that you can seperate God into a creator and the rest, If that is the doctrine of creationism, then I do not agree with that.

 

[masnergy]

It was humour. As I said lighten up. I see you are a Pentecostalist - never a sect renowned for humour.

Joking that Shaq would dunk on Jesus all night long isn't bringing Jesus down - it's a joke - it also would have been a fact - but it was a joke.

As for calling myself a Christian - I could say the same about certain Christian cults that speak in tongues and dance around like lunatics.

I know you were using humor, and yes I know that Jesus could not take shaq one on one, well i'm sure he could if he wanted to, but that's not the point, How can you call Christians that speak in tongues and dance around, a cult. I know that the bible says that tounges are a gift from God, and I know that to dance in joy of Him has been a way of expressing our praise and Love for him by prophets and Kings of the Bible, I believe the psalmist even danced for God. Any way, wrong thread for this discussion. Not understanding something just not make it wrong!!!!