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I'm not asking for proof of anything, archaeologist. But you've been very outspoken lately about the meaninglessness of of science in light of your faith. And yet, you claim to be an archaeologist with four degrees! I just can't imagine how someone who devalues science so much (unless it agrees with the Bible) can earn four degrees in the field! So again, I ask you to explain your approach to science, and share with us some of the research you've done. I'm assuming you have the experience to validate your claims.why would you want proof? have my words contradicted the words of God ? or have they just contradicted your thinking and made you think about your own practices and beliefs?
And yet, you claim to be an archaeologist with four degrees!
And yet, you claim to be an archaeologist with four degrees
just can't imagine how someone who devalues science so much (unless it agrees with the Bible) can earn four degrees in the field!
I ask you to explain your approach to science, and share with us some of the research you've done. I'm assuming you have the experience to validate your claims
But you've been very outspoken lately about the meaninglessness of of science in light of your faith.
awhile back you mentioned scientific truth and spiritual truth,well here is a rebuttal to that statement. taken from 'Being a Christian in Science' by Walter Hearn, pg. 68:
"warren weaver agreed at first glance scientific truth seemed much more secure thanreligious truth, but saw that, at its core,science was actually far from solid. although he had no doubts about scientific reasoning as a useful tool, to him it had deep philosophical flaws. deductive logic suffered frombeing 'quite powerless to create truths--it can only reveal previously and unconsciously assumed truth.'"
scientific truths are greatly flawed because they omit The Truth--Jesus-- from their equations, and conclusions.
You brought up the fact that you have four degrees in an effort to validate your claims (as you admit above). So I am going to pursue that angle. What fields are your four degrees in? Are any of them in science?SIGH.... all i have said was that i have 4 degrees. if that is a problem for you then take it up with the schools who graduated me...
i have never said what field they are in and it is not the issue.
The idea that c is changing is a PRATT and has been addressed here many times, so that is very likely why people are so slow to try to refute it again. shernren and busterdog got into a long discussion over this very topic some time ago, if you want to search archives to see what was said.all that has been trotted out as 'evidence' has been the time light from a star travels to the earth. i see no proof of that position nor any rebuttals to the article i posted which showed that light seems to be reaching earth a lot faster than scientists say.
You know, archaeologist, I might just as easily take the same fundamentalist line on Hebrew cosmology, provide you with a bunch of relevant Scripture (Job 38:13-14; Isaiah 40:22; Matthew 4:8; 1 Samuel 2:8; 1 Chronicles 16:30; Job 9:6, 38:4; Psalm 75:3, 96:10, 104:5; Genesis 7:11, 8:2; Deuteronomy 28:12; 2 Kings 7:2; Job 37:18; Malachi 3:10; Joshua 10:12; Psalm 19:4-6; Ecclesiastes 1:5), and the reasoning you would provide to argue against geocentricity and the flatness of the earth would be the same reasoning that I would use to argue that your literal interpretation of Genesis is incorrect.that does not grant secular science, some thing that is not of God the right to declare how God did something.
How do you suggest we squeeze him in, then?scientific truths are greatly flawed because they omit The Truth--Jesus-- from their equations, and conclusions.
How do you suggest we squeeze him in, then?
F = ma + Jesus?
The minute we materialize God by trying to force Him into science is the minute we open Him up to empirical falsification. And that's just what the atheists want. I advise strongly against it.
You brought up the fact that you have four degrees in an effort to validate your claims (as you admit above). So I am going to pursue that angle. What fields are your four degrees in? Are any of them in science?
Again, the reason I am pursuing this is because you brought it up. If you the number of degrees you have is not an issue, then I fail to understand why you brought it up to begin with. Your reluctance to answer my question is leading me to believe that you have no degree in any scientific field (university accreditation aside), and that your criticism of "atheistic science" is without merit. I could be wrong, but without any way of telling, I could be right. The spirit leads me to believe that I am right, and this view is not in opposition to the Bible, soo...i am not the issue and stop using it as a diversion.
If God had the foresight you say He did, why would He still create an aged earth knowing the problems it would eventually cause for His people? Again, surely an omnipotent God could have created an earth that looked young and served the same practical purpose as one that looked old.i do not believe that creating with age is deceptive. rather it is practical and giventhat God has the abilityof foresight, he would know exactly what would be needed and when it would need to be created...
My "credible rebuttal" is simply that the earth looks old because it is old. It is the way God made it (Psalm 19:1-2; Romans 1:20). No apologetics necessary.let's hear your credible rebutall to this and if your going to make statements i hope you will provide links so i can check out your views.
It was a population. Populations evolve; individuals don't. That's one of the basic tenets of evolutionary theory. Parenting skills were evolved, too. As were hunting skills and speaking skills.also one question, when man first appeared in the evolutionary process, was it a child, full grown, a teenager or what? where did it learn its parenting skills since it had no one to teach him/her?
If God had the foresight you say He did,
why would He still create an aged earth knowing the problems it would eventually cause for His people
Duly noted. I hear you loud and clear.could it be that i used it as an illustration to make a point?? if i wanted to brag i would have given more details.
Nope. Just your interpretation of how you think God created the earth (with age). Please don't confuse your interpretation with reality.are you doubting God's capibilities?
So you're saying that God created the earth to look old in order to trick people into thinking that it is, and thus fall from His grace forever??? That sounds mighty deceptive to me!!!God is seeing who really loves Him, who really believes His word, even wih scant evidence to prove what He is saying.
It isn't. But then again, I never said it was. You're putting words in my mouth. I referenced those passages because they imply that we can learn about God from His creation. If God's creation does not reflect its actual history, as you believe, then these passages would be meaningless. Metamorphic rocks cannot speak of God's glory if He created them with false histories to deceive us.PLEASE show me where old age is referrenced in those passages.
No it isn't. Nobody has ever said that. You simply do not understand evolution. That much is sorely obvious.that is news to the evolutionists who state that individuals evolved from a common ancestor.
Nope. Just your interpretation of how you think God created the earth (with age). Please don't confuse your interpretation with reality
So you're saying that God created the earth to look old in order to trick people into thinking that it is
It isn't. But then again, I never said it was. You're putting words in my mouth. I referenced those passages because they imply that we can learn about God from His creation
My "credible rebuttal" is simply that the earth looks old because it is old. It is the way God made it (Psalm 19:1-2; Romans 1:20). No apologetics necessary.
Metamorphic rocks cannot speak of God's glory if He created them with false histories to deceive us.
No it isn't. Nobody has ever said that. You simply do not understand evolution. That much is sorely obvious
The central idea of biological evolution is that all life on Earth shares a common ancestor, just as you and your cousins share a common grandmother
A necessity? The omphalos hypothesis is neither biblical or scientific. I would hardly call it a "necessity."creating with age is not deceptive, but again a neccessity.
I think you misunderstood the context of my citations, then...no i am not---here is your exact quote:
But the rocks do. When you find a fossil in a rock, you don't just assume that God created it in situ, right? Similarly, we you find a meteor crator in the groud, you don't just assume God created it as-is, either. There's a history to be told there.God has never said they had a history.
Maybe you should take that as a hint. Anyone with a solid understanding of evolution knows that populations evolve. NOT individuals. Here's a slew of basic evolution websites that claim as much:if i had a dime for everytime someone said that to me, i could retire.
Surely you must accept some level of evolution, archaeologist. Surely you accept that which other YECs term 'microevolution.' Right??? It strikes me that you are so dead-set against evolution, that you are willing to reject anything even remotely related to it, pushing yourself further and further into the extreme.the definitions change as it becomes more evident that secular scientists can't prove its existence.
this whole creating with age thing doesnt even make sense ... you cant create something with age -- if its newly created then it has no age, no matter what it looks like!
necessity? The omphalos hypothesis is neither biblical or scientific. I would hardly call it a "necessity
I think you misunderstood the context of my citations, then
But the rocks do. When you find a fossil in a rock, you don't just assume that God created it in situ, right?
Similarly, we you find a meteor crator in the groud, you don't just assume God created it as-is, either. There's a history to be told there
Maybe you should take that as a hint
Yes, ultimately, all individuals share the same common ancestor. But evolution occurs at the level of the population, NOT the individual
Surely you must accept some level of evolution, archaeologist. Surely you accept that which other YECs term 'microevolution.'
It strikes me that you are so dead-set against evolution, that you are willing to reject anything even remotely related to it, pushing yourself further and further into the extreme.
maybe i should have said 'appearance of age' instead of just 'age'. does that make it clearer?
i never said 'looked old' i said created with age
God did not create a world that looked old
It's not biblical because the Bible doesn't say that the earth was created to look old.and why would 'neccessity' not be Biblical? God, knowing what he wants to do and is needed, would certainly plan things out since he is a God of order and not confusion. we see that in the entire 6 days of creation.
Again, why do you accept that the earth looks old, then???no the rocks do not. secular science says that and they cannot come up with a fool proof system of dating nor prove they are right. such dates are not verifiable and it is a 'take our word for it because our machine says we are right.'
archaeologist, if you find a meteor in the ground that's 10 km across (like the Chicxulub Crater near Mexico), people from all around the world would have felt the preceeding impact, and the few remaining survivors likely would have written about it. Most of the craters of the earth are invariably more than 10,000 years old.no, the weak link is the scientist's guesstimates and dating of the object. science thinks they are right but such notions are based solely on asumptions. there is no independent confirmation, corroboration etc.
I don't think that accusation carries as much weight as you might like.so far all you have done is shown me circular reasoning at its finest.
Just saying you understand something doesn't mean you understand it. You have to demonstrate your understanding, which you haven't done yet.ha ha. i understand it quite well and it continually changes to meet problems adherents can't solve. truth never changes, which is a big strike against evolution, thus that is why we do not need to make creation into a science in the secular mold. it was an act done once and the results are seen every day.
Individuals DON'T change over time, though, archaeologist. You're stuck with the DNA you're born with. What changes over time is the ratio of different DNA (or more specifically alleles) in a population. Again, populations evolve. Individuals don't. This has been recognized since the development of evolutionary theory. Just saying, "No it duzint! Nuh-uh!!!" and sticking your fingers in your ears doesn't change that fact.i don't buy into this latest defintion either as change comes through the individual, if evolution existed. the group would change over time because individuals changed. it is just another evolutionist revision to avoid the truth.
That never stopped you from using the products of secular science...sorry but i have come to the conclusion that if ipreach that evolution does not exist thenit cannot exist inany form. one has to be consistant with what they believe or they become hypocrites.
Hey! Great! That flies in the face of your next sentence, though...sorry to burst your bubble but i see YEC'ers who accept micro-evolution as compromisers and God does not compromise.
no. the truth isn't extreme, it is right no matter how hard naysayers and doubters twist the words and present their 'evidence'.
The Bible also says that the earth takes shape like clay under a seal (Job 38:14). And it says that the earth sits on pillars (Job 9:6) and that there are windows in the sky (Gen 7:11). Lest you be a hypocrite, I hope you believe these things, too, rather than compromise the Bible for the theories of secular man.the Bible says God created in 6 days, secular man says it took Him longer. if you serve God, then why are you listening to secular man? a good servant presents His masters view and does not compromise.
It's not biblical because the Bible doesn't say that the earth was created to look old
Again, why do you accept that the earth looks old, then???
if you find a meteor in the ground that's 10 km across (like the Chicxulub Crater near Mexico), people from all around the world would have felt the preceeding impact, and the few remaining survivors likely would have written about it. Most of the craters of the earth are invariably more than 10,000 years old
Just saying you understand something doesn't mean you understand it. You have to demonstrate your understanding, which you haven't done yet
Again, populations evolve.
That flies in the face of your next sentence, though...
Lest you be a hypocrite, I hope you believe these things, too, rather than compromise the Bible for the theories of secular man.
That never stopped you from using the products of secular science...
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