Is church really important for kids?

crazyeddie

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I believe that secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without religious foundation is built on air; consequently all character training and religion must be derived from faith.

Sorry. I forgot to attribute the quote. These aren't my words...I was just quoting Adolf Hitler. Really. You can look it up. I also meant to quote another famous person with respect to indoctrinating children:

"If I were to speak your kind of language, I would say that man's only moral commandment is: Thou shalt think. But a 'moral commandment' is a contradiction in terms. The moral is the chosen, not the forced; the understood, not the obeyed. The moral is the rational, and reason accepts no commandments."

Stop brainwashing children. Let them think!
 
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theseagullwithoneleg

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nah you have to have something for the kids. man looking back in my life, thats when i learnt heaps about God, Jesus. you hear stories about people who went to sunday school when they were little then years later when they were in difficult situations or circumstances, calling out to God for help or Salvation.

in our church, its quite simple, we do kids church. no different really except its not boring. its all geared towards them knowing about God and experiencing Him through worship and prayer and games.
 
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SazukiUltra

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in our church we have the kids stay for the worship and praise time. they are dismissed before the sermon. I think it works out well, because the kids get to experience most of the service, and a lot of the kids really enjoy singing the songs. I should probably note that it is a pretty small church with an attendance of about 70-100 people.
 
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Clark H.

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Our church stopped Children's church about two years ago. I think it was a wise move. Parents and children typically go their own ways once they enter a church building until it is time to go home. When the children were sent out to CC before the sermon it felt like part of the Body of Christ was missing.

I now cherish the time that my wife and I get to spend with our child during the service. We worship as a family with our church family. Children need to see and experience corporate worship in all its facets, including worship through music, through giving and through the preaching of the Word. Children can get more out of a sermon than we often give them credit. yes, my child may draw while the pastor preaches, but he gets to look up songs in the hymnal, participates in giving back to God through our tithes and offerings, and follows along as the pastor read the sermon passage. It leads to many discussions afterwards about why we do or don't do things in worship.

It is not brainwashing. Our child will make his own decisions as an adult. I am glad to have the opportunity to point him in the right direction.
 
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Jimmy Thomas

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I am amazed by some of the posting in this thread. Here are my thoughts.

To say that children should decide on a religious view on their own, and then to disagree with teaching children is a complete contradiction. From their first days, children are always learning. And whether we believe so or not, children are learning from us, both the good things and the bad. If we choose to allow our children to decide their beliefs on their own, we are in fact allowing others to teach our children. And that is what they are doing--teaching our children. If we love our children and want the best for them, we should demonstrate this by teaching them the very things that we hold dearest. Of course, what we teach and how we teach it goes back to what we ourselves believe...

I helped to begin a children's church program at my church in the '80s and it is still going strong, though under "different management." Except for those in the nursery, the children begin each worship service with the adults, and then are directed at some point to join their leader and depart for their own service. Their music and their messages are geared for their ages, which are kindergarten and early elementary grades. While I do agree in the importance of corporate worship and I do understand the importance of families worshipping together--worshipping as a family is one of the ways that the older generation teaches the younger generation what is important. But I also believe that worship should have significance for the worshipper in order to be effective. This is the same reasoning that allows us to have different styles of worship service--traditional, contemporary, and so on. When the worshipper is comfortable in their worship, they are more open to the promptings of the worship leaders, and also more open to the working of God in their lives, even if they are relatively young lives.

As far as Sunday School goes, which I also define as group Bible study, I consider it very important. As a follower of Christ, this is one of the things that we are instructed to be about, both individually and with others. I think that Sunday School should be provided for both the young and the old, though it is becoming harder to get young adults to attend more than a worship service at their church of choice. That aside, the classes should be offered and staffed. If a church does hold Sunday School during the time of the worship service, I would hope that the church also has multiple worship services on Sunday with Sunday School offered during each, so that church members may attend worship during one hour and attend Sunday School during another. My church has two worship services on Sunday morning with Sunday School sandwiched between them. And Children's Church is offered during both of the worship services. Incidentally, our youth also have their on worship service on Wednesday evenings in addition to participating in worship and Sunday School on Sunday.
 
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heron

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Stop brainwashing children. Let them think!
I teach Sunday school, and you would be surprised at how little brainwashing we do. Before I teach a topic, I ask the kids to tell what they already know. Usually they teach the class, and I just guide when each activity is covered. Kids as young as first grade already know a lot. Some are eager to lead prayer. If they are respected, kids give back a lot.

On always learning, we'd better hope that we are all always learning.

While I didn't make my kids go to class when they preferred to stay in the sanctuary, I strongly support the Sunday school as a complete and valid ministry. Without SS, the church easily slips into centering around adults and squelching the kids. They need an option to handle their energy and learning levels... their patience levels.
 
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step7hen

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Can it be a bit counter-productive to make a child sit through church if they don't want to? I guess most kids don't understand the significance of the bible and its teaching untill they grow older(14-18?) i know i didn't. My thought's were how can i get out of this place untill its all over! Its sounds stupid now but i disliked sunday school and church so much that i would hide in the toilets with a friend untill it finished. It was just boring and i felt stupid because I didn't understand what was being said! I decided not to go to church when i grew older and i still don't go! but i read the bible most days and enjoy my relationship with god!
 
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Jimmy Thomas

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step7hen, I am sorry that your experience growing up was so bad. And I'm afraid that your experience is similar to so many. For the most part, teaching in church is not done by those who are paid (meaing the ministerial staff), but by those who are willing (meaning the membership/laypeople). Unfortunately, willingness is the beginning of the process, not the end. Because of the great responsibility that comes with teaching, teachers should work diligently and seek God's guidance in what and how they teach. The training of teachers is also a great benefit, but that often depends on available time and budget. If there is no budget, then the teach should try to learn what they can with their available time and resources. Regardless, if a teacher recognizes that things are always changing, they can adapt their teaching style to what works, without sacrificing the timeless message of the lesson. I love this saying: "If the learner hasn't learned, then the teacher hasn't taught."

As I've mentioned before, children are alway learning something whether we teach them or not. It is therefore important that we provide them with something worthy to learn and in a way that they enjoy learning. If we do not, then we are doing a disservice to our Lord and to the generations that come after.
:)
 
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step7hen

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step7hen, I am sorry that your experience growing up was so bad. And I'm afraid that your experience is similar to so many. For the most part, teaching in church is not done by those who are paid (meaing the ministerial staff), but by those who are willing (meaning the membership/laypeople). Unfortunately, willingness is the beginning of the process, not the end. Because of the great responsibility that comes with teaching, teachers should work diligently and seek God's guidance in what and how they teach. The training of teachers is also a great benefit, but that often depends on available time and budget. If there is no budget, then the teach should try to learn what they can with their available time and resources. Regardless, if a teacher recognizes that things are always changing, they can adapt their teaching style to what works, without sacrificing the timeless message of the lesson. I love this saying: "If the learner hasn't learned, then the teacher hasn't taught."

As I've mentioned before, children are alway learning something whether we teach them or not. It is therefore important that we provide them with something worthy to learn and in a way that they enjoy learning. If we do not, then we are doing a disservice to our Lord and to the generations that come after.
:)
Thank you for your reply Jimmy! From my experience of teaching science to secondary school children they enjoy and get involved the most when they themselves have come up with their own ideas on what you are teaching them. One of the things I would say is important is not to teach them directly but let them evaluate the scripture themselves. So that the youth can generate discussions between themselves and come up with their interpretation of the bible without it being WRONG! This is what my Sunday school teacher didn’t do, he would just tell us how it was and he would make us do too much writing!
Jimmy how do you teach your Sunday school class? What age group do you work with? And how do you adapt your teaching style to what works, without sacrificing the timeless message of the lesson? Any advice you could give me would be much appreciated. I would like to one day help children to learn about Jesus, maybe through Sunday school.
 
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Jimmy Thomas

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Thank you for your reply Jimmy! From my experience of teaching science to secondary school children they enjoy and get involved the most when they themselves have come up with their own ideas on what you are teaching them. One of the things I would say is important is not to teach them directly but let them evaluate the scripture themselves. So that the youth can generate discussions between themselves and come up with their interpretation of the bible without it being WRONG! This is what my Sunday school teacher didn’t do, he would just tell us how it was and he would make us do too much writing!
Jimmy how do you teach your Sunday school class? What age group do you work with? And how do you adapt your teaching style to what works, without sacrificing the timeless message of the lesson? Any advice you could give me would be much appreciated. I would like to one day help children to learn about Jesus, maybe through Sunday school.

OK, step7hen. I'll try to help as best I can. But I must start by letting you know that I teach Sunday School preschool-age children. Specifically, ages 2 and 3, thought that may fudge a little on either side depending on when they are promoted to their next class. I have been teaching this age for over 20 years. Having said that, I must also admit that I have an 18-year-old daughter, and there were times during her early teen years when she and her friends might be found in parts of the church other than in the Youth area, when her Sunday School class was going on. So I have an understanding of how you felt. Now, let's get into it.

Whatever their age, students learn better when they enjoy what they are learning. This breaks down differently for different ages. For preschoolers, this means that they learn through their play--because all they do is play--for their age, play is the primary vehicle. The best way to teach this age is to provide a wide variety of activites and through the play, communicate your message. For example, play could involve making a collage, reading a book, carring for a baby doll, pretending to cook, playing with blocks, working a puzzle, rolling a ball, playing musical instruments, or any other number of things. In each of these activites you would have some teachingn materials, including perhaps a Bible with a Bible marker placed at the Scripture passage of the Bible story, and perhaps a Bible story picture. As you perform the activity, whatever it is, you make observations that lend themselves to the Bible truth or Bible story that is being taught that day. For example, if you are teaching about the friendship of David and Jonathan in 1 Samuel. As the children play, you encourage and complement the children for playing well together, for sharing, for taking turns, for being good friends. As they continue to play, show them the Bible story picture, if you have one. Perhaps even allowing a child to hold the picture for you. You open the Bible to the marker and you tell the Bible story. You do not actually read form the Bible, but you tell the prepared story from memory and in your own words. Whether or not the children are looking direct at you, they know that what you are talking about comes from the Bible because you have the Bible open. As you talk about the story and the people, and as you continue to work them into your conversations throughout the rest of the class, they are learning. They may or may not remember specific people (though they might!), but they will learn over time that the Bible is not something that they are forbidden to touch, but something that God gave to them and that God wants them to know about. They enjoy coming to church and they develop a comfort level that makes them more willing to learn as they grow and mature.

Now, let's jump way ahead, to grades 9 through 12, what we call high school (roughly, ages 14 through 17). This age is extremely challenging for teachers because the kids are coming into new freedoms as they grow older, and they are going through physical and social changes that they may not completely understand or like. This is our Youth Group age. Most of the learning for this age is woven through the activities that they enjoy. Their Sunday School / Bible study time has more of a social-gathering feel, with the kids interacting with each other, and the kids are encouraged to take part in the process. Worship for this age has a bit of a concert feel, complete with drumset, keyboard and electric guitars. These kids grew up with this style of music, so they are very comfortable worshiping though this music. Our youth area has a small stage in one corner where the band sets up, and there are lights, mics, and there is a sound board in the back of the room. During the non-summer (no school) months, the youth have their own worship service on Wednesday evenings while the older and younger folks have there own events elsewhere in the building. The youth worship is done in the youth area around there stage. As part of the service, the youth minister brings the message from the Bible. Depending on the night, they might pack out the room. Of course, that number includes a good portion that are brought by friends and that might not always attend church, but for the time they are there, they are praising, they are hearing from God's Word, and, by golly, they are even enjoying themselves. I would also like to point out that the youth are encouraged to participate in worship on Sunday morning as well (particularly during the 11am service, which is very contemporary in format), but there still are some kids that are only seen on Wednesday nights. Even so, they are coming. And when they are, they are loved, they are ministered to and they are taught God's word.

OK. Enough rambling for now. I hope you find some of this helpful, my brother.
:)
 
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Etsi

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I believe that it is very important that children are in worship with the adults. Our church in the summer has children in Divine Liturgy until communion and then they are dismissed to their classes and during the winter they have a short children's service, then the groups are brought up to Divine Liturgy to stay till communion, then they go straight to their classrooms as they leave from having communion. Adults continue with the latter part of Liturgy and then we all have coffee fellowship.

I could not imagine excluding my children from worship nor just not taking them. I don't believe that it leaves them open to choose a religion, but rather it keeps them from having a foundation to grab onto and it teaches them that either we think very little of religion, faith, and the sacred or we wish to exclude them from our religion, faith, and the sacred.
 
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step7hen

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That is very interesting jimmy! I’ve seen music used alot by churches for young people, the ones that do it seem to enjoy it. It brilliant that your no-school Wednesday group brings young people in that wouldn’t normally go to church, that’s what it’s all about! It’s also difficult to know how much play you should put in place of reading the bible or studying Jesus’ path. I suppose it’s difficult to keep kids coming to your group if your focus is on something you don’t enjoy.
My auntie teaches ballet in Canada and she said when she started working (30 years ago) that 90% of her time was teaching and 10% of her time was taken up with other things such as getting the pupils to focus on the ballet and not play up. Now she says its 50-50 because kids these days talk more and are less focused. I’m assuming it’s the same with teaching the bible. Sorry to end on a downer but it seems interesting that in that area we seem to be going backwards and it seems to be getting worse. Anyway, cheers for the reply Jimmy, all the best
Steve
 
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Jimmy Thomas

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That is very interesting jimmy! I’ve seen music used alot by churches for young people, the ones that do it seem to enjoy it. It brilliant that your no-school Wednesday group brings young people in that wouldn’t normally go to church, that’s what it’s all about! It’s also difficult to know how much play you should put in place of reading the bible or studying Jesus’ path. I suppose it’s difficult to keep kids coming to your group if your focus is on something you don’t enjoy.
My auntie teaches ballet in Canada and she said when she started working (30 years ago) that 90% of her time was teaching and 10% of her time was taken up with other things such as getting the pupils to focus on the ballet and not play up. Now she says its 50-50 because kids these days talk more and are less focused. I’m assuming it’s the same with teaching the bible. Sorry to end on a downer but it seems interesting that in that area we seem to be going backwards and it seems to be getting worse. Anyway, cheers for the reply Jimmy, all the best
Steve

step7hen, just wanted to follow up. Sorry if I did not make myself clear enough. The Wednesday evening event is considered a worship service, with music and preaching of the Word and a social gathering time. The youth are also encouraged to attend on Sunday morning, when Sunday School/Bible study is done in greater depth. I should have stressed that one of the main reasons that there are less youth on Sunday mornings is that the parents of the youth do not necessary attend our church, or any church at all for that matter. Those that do come on Sunday morning are either attending with their parents, or they do not have personal transportation and cannot find a ride, or they do have personal transportation, but they are not as committed in their walk with Christ, at least not yet. I agree that it is sad that youth, and younger adults for that matter, are hesitant to do anything that might involve any kind of effort on their part. I am afraid this is a symptom of a growing cultural problem that is a big matter for prayer.

God bless, my brother!
:)
 
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