Is Calvin an idol?

[ghs1994]

What do you all say about this? Seems Calvin has gained quite a bit of popularity. Almost sounds like the same problem that Paul discussed in 1 Cor. 1. I know most Calvinists have their stuff together somewhat and base everything on scripture, but do you think you should be calling yourself a Calvanist?

I do agree with most of the TULIP, but why label yourselves by a mere man? Why not Christ? Do you want to be labeled so that folks know where you're coming from? I'm just curious, not trying to start a fight. Just looking for a mature answer without any kind of sarcasim.

 

[jbarcher]

Personally (and not as a Calvinist) I find it useful to distinguish between different theological systems. Labels and names aren't bad in themselves, but we always need to be wary of turning them into derogatory words.

As for what Paul says, I suspect (have not decided) that his point is that Christ must be the head of all things, NOT that we should not use terms to distinguish ourselves. After all, the Galatians are NOT the Corinthians and the Corinthians are NOT the Galatians.

 

[PapaLandShark]

Perhaps this will be helpful:



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What is Calvinism?

The term "Calvinism" is used by various groups to identify their beliefs with one of the most prominent leaders of the reformation, John Calvin. Groups that call themselves "Calvinists" agree with the teachings of Calvin in varying degrees: from holding simply to the "five points of Calvinism" (regarding man's salvation by the grace of God) to adhering to the teachings of Calvin not only in matters of man's salvation but also in matters relating to how we should worship God, how we should live the Christian Life, and what sort of government and order should be used in God's Church. Those who do so, do not do so because they would follow the teachings of men, but because they believe these teachings, revived at the time of the reformation in Switzerland, the Netherlands, other countries, and especially Scotland, were in truth the teachings of the Prophets, Apostles, and Christ himself, as laid down in the Holy Scriptures, though for the most part hidden for many centuries under the erroneous teachings and practices of the Roman Catholic Church.

The "Five Points of Calvinism" were not formulated by Calvin, but rather by the Synod of Dort in 1618-1619, which was a gathering of many great leaders and teachers of the reformed churches throughout Europe. This Synod, in response to the heresies of James Arminius, then spreading throughout the Dutch churches, released "The Canons of Dort," which addressed five major doctrines then in dispute. Since then these doctrines, as asserted at Dort, have been summarized and labeled as the "Five Points of Calvinism." Although Calvin himself never set forth such a system of five points, these teachings are a compendium of what John Calvin and others (such as Martin Luther, Augustine, the Apostle Paul, & Christ himself) taught regarding salvation and are all founded on the holy Scriptures....




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http://www.truecovenanter.com/supralapsarian/Calvinism.html

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[Jon_]

This topic comes up every now and again. I went round with another forumite on it a few months ago. You might want to take a glance at the thread.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1947888-reformed-denominations.html

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[ghs1994]

Actually it still is idolatry.You may agree with Calvin, but you are a Christian, not a Calvanist or Lutheran or whatever. You were predestined to the likeness of Christ, not Calvin. I know this sounds like I'm splitting hairs and I understand the need for seperation. We should adhere to the teaching of Christ and the Apostles since they are the one's who had the divine inspiration and not Calvin's opinion on scripture. That's fine if you agree with His teachings, but His teachings are not flawless. But then again, that's my opinion, which matters little anyway.

 

[StAnselm]

You said that you didn't want any sarcastic answers, so I do hope this is OK...

I do agree with most of the TULIP, but why label yourselves by a mere man? Why not Christ?

Strangely enough - that is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians 1!

 

[ClementofRome]

Ok...then I am a Dortian. THis would then be identifying myself with a town rather than a man. Is this better?

I am happy to call myself a "Christian" and only used the generic Christain icon here on CF for a number of months until it becamse obvious that labels were necessary to clarify one's position.

 

[Jon_]

. . . But then again, that's my opinion, which matters little anyway.

You got that right. Especially when you're wrong. Like now.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[edie19]

What do you all say about this? Seems Calvin has gained quite a bit of popularity. Almost sounds like the same problem that Paul discussed in 1 Cor. 1. I know most Calvinists have their stuff together somewhat and base everything on scripture, but do you think you should be calling yourself a Calvanist?

I do agree with most of the TULIP, but why label yourselves by a mere man? Why not Christ? Do you want to be labeled so that folks know where you're coming from? I'm just curious, not trying to start a fight. Just looking for a mature answer without any kind of sarcasim.

While my theologic beliefs are in line with Calvin's, I generally refer to myself as a reformed Christian. I typically only use the term Calvinism when talking with those who are like-minded, however it does define where I am doctrinally. That said, he was just a man and no, I don't "idolize" him - neither does anyone else I know. Besides, if I were going to "idolize" anyone it would probably be Spurgeon

 

[pinkieposies]

Actually it still is idolatry.You may agree with Calvin, but you are a Christian, not a Calvanist or Lutheran or whatever. You were predestined to the likeness of Christ, not Calvin.

I think everyone here would agree with this; We do not worship Calvin, nor do we find our salvation in him, but in CHRIST. We do not trust in him, but in Christ. We do not put his teachings above the Bible or those of Christ.And I am sure we would all call ourselves Christians before we would say we are Calvinist {I personally go to a Reformed church and prefer to call myself a Reformed Christian}, but as it has been said before, it is a means of clarifying one's position. Whatever your definition of "idolatry" is, it seems to be off a bit.

I know this sounds like I'm splitting hairs and I understand the need for seperation. We should adhere to the teaching of Christ and the Apostles since they are the one's who had the divine inspiration and not Calvin's opinion on scripture.

Are you saying that God was not working through Calvin when he helped lead the movement that helped restore Christianity back to its Biblical foundations? Are you saying that God did not work through him to help lead Christ's church away from the errors of Roman Catholicism? Of course, it is true that we should cling to the Bible and the teachings of Christ for our primary source of spiritual nourishment! But where would we be without Godly men to help the Church stay on the straight and narrow path?

That's fine if you agree with His teachings, but His teachings are not flawless. But then again, that's my opinion, which matters little anyway.

We are all sinful men prone to err, but God has given the Churches leaders to keep us from straying from His truth. Calvin certainly deserves our respect, which is why we use his name to label the beliefs we hold, but as I said before, we are Christians before Calvinists.

Erin

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

I use the term Calvinist as to not be confused for a Romanist.


Peace to u,

Bill

 

[ghs1994]

ok, I see what you all are saying. Then why are there Calvinists and not just Reformed?

 

[PapaLandShark]

You could make the same arguement with the word "Christian". Just because it has "Christ" in it does not make it Good. The early body of believers didn't call themselves Christians. The nickname was applied to them much later. It is a way of identifying since, sadly, some who call themselves "Christian" are anything but.

I suppose if you want to get truly nitpicky we should be calling ourselves Jesusists but somehow...

 

[Jon_]

ok, I see what you all are saying. Then why are there Calvinists and not just Reformed?

I recommend that you read the thread I posted previously. All of the arguments you are advancing are addressed there (including the use of the term "Reformed" over again "Calvinist").

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[jbarcher]

Let's all say we follow the Way.

 

[pinkieposies]

I recommend that you read the thread I posted previously. All of the arguments you are advancing are addressed there (including the use of the term "Reformed" over again "Calvinist").

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

And that is an excellent thread too!!! It was very insightful, and helped me to clarify some things as well. Thanks Jon! I guess it pays to go back into the archives and read old threads!

God Bless,
Erin

 

[Rolf Ernst]

What do you all say about this? Seems Calvin has gained quite a bit of popularity. Almost sounds like the same problem that Paul discussed in 1 Cor. 1. I know most Calvinists have their stuff together somewhat and base everything on scripture, but do you think you should be calling yourself a Calvanist?

I do agree with most of the TULIP, but why label yourselves by a mere man? Why not Christ? Do you want to be labeled so that folks know where you're coming from? I'm just curious, not trying to start a fight. Just looking for a mature answer without any kind of sarcasim.

The purpose of referring to Calvin, the Reformed faith, or the doctrines of grace is nothing more than a way to express the view of biblical doctrine which we hold. Any denomination with any doctrinal view might call itself Christian.

In regard to idolatry, consider this: What do you believe the core meaning of the first commandment is? "Thou shalt have no other God before me." How lofty is that requirement? What is the meaning of fulfilling it? Reformed people have a view in that regard. How does your view compare to it?

The requirement and signifigance of the first commandment is basiclly this:
"Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God."
1 Cor. 10:31 In other words, you are guilty of idolatry to the extent that the glory of God is not the motive of all your actions. When you go to work do you clock in with the motive in mind of working diligently, honestly, and to the best of your ability to bring glory to God? If so, you are serving Christ in your work life no matter what line of work you are involved in. Or do you go to work with a view to improving your financioal position? If so, you are guilty of serving mammon, the thing which Jesus points out most often as idolatry. "You cannot serve God and mammon."

When we refer to Calvin, the Reformed faith or the doctrines of grace our motive is the glory of God. Our reference shows a readiness to defend pure biblical doctrine, those doctrines which above all other forms of doctrine display the glory of God. It is specifically for the purpose of opening up the subject of those doctrines which glorify God that we do not pass up the opportunity available in every contact. We hope that your next question iwll be, "what is Calvinisn--or the reformed faith?" so we can further explain to you those doctrines which glorify God. I prefer to speak of our doctrine as Reformed rather than Calvinist. Sadly, because there are many who are so ill-informed in regrd to Bible doctrine, there are many who do not know what we mean when we refer to the reformed faith or the doctrines of grace. In those instances it is necessary to use the name of Calvin or else they will have no idea what we mean. The use of the name of Calvin is almost invariably so that the ill-informed will understand; not because we are idolators. Next question?

 

[McWilliams]

I dont see the label as being so different from a denominational label.

If you're a 5 point, reformed baptist calvinist people pretty much know what you believe to be the truth! lol

Actually I never label myself as such but know in my heart thats who I am. To anyone who asks I usually say I'm reformed baptist. That usually then will initiate further conversation to clarify, if they are interested and include the doctrines of grace.

I love the fixed feeling of knowing what I believe specifically. For many years I didnt have that and am so thankful our sweet Lord opened my eyes and heart to find His great doctrines of grace! I dont mind at all being called 'calvinist'!
Spurgeon called it a nickname for biblical truth!

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

ghs... Do you also have a problem with the four gospels being named after mere men?

 

[edie19]

"The root principles of the two great systems of theology are to be found embedded either in Calvinism or in Arminianism. However, these systems were in existence eleven hundred years before John Calvin was born. Then, these two systems were called Augustinianism and Pelagianism, so named after the two men of the fifth century who defined them. Yes, we call it Calvinism. We could, with justice, call it Augustinianism which would not mean we are following Augustine into the Roman Catholic Church but rather that we are following the principles of theology that Augustine taught. Indeed, John A. Broadus, a great Southern Baptist of the last century, was right when he said that this system goes back to the Apostle Paul. Hence, Broadus called Calvinism 'that exalted system of Pauline truth.'"
Ernest C. Reisinger