Is belief that a god exists a choice?

talquin · Dec 7, 2014

dysert said:
Belief is a choice. Belief is a composite of all life experiences. Factors that go into what we believe include things like: experience, logic, feelings, hopes, et al. Lots of people get hung up on evidence, but evidence can be faulty, lacking, and be misinterpreted. And who's to say that evidence should trump all else anyway?

I distinctly remember, though it was a long time ago, having to make a choice whether or not to believe in God. At that time, I chose to believe. Today, I still have a choice. I could choose to not believe in Him any longer. Seems to me that if I can choose to not believe, then I can also choose to believe.

As a couple of examples: I choose not to believe that extraterrestrial life exists. Now if ET confronted me, I'd probably change my mind. I also choose to believe that people cannot perform actual magic. Even though there may be evidence that they can, I still don't believe it.

All choices are based on a multitude of criteria (some maybe even subconscious) and how each criterion is weighed in relation to the others.

Can you choose to believe that there are 50,000 tiny orange men crawling around in the center of Jupiter?

bhsmte · Dec 7, 2014

juvenissun said:
Thousands of Christians tell you: Believe. Read the Bible.
That is how could you begin.

You CHOOSE not to begin.

One problem. Many non-believers became agnostics or atheists from doing just that; reading the bible. The more they read and investigated the book, the less believable the story became.

talquin · Dec 7, 2014

Non sequitur said:
Is belief that I love my parents a choice?

Unlikely. I'd say belief that you love your parents is a reaction to what feels like loving your parents.

talquin · Dec 7, 2014

jacks said:
I can't speak for others, but for me all my beliefs are a choice. It's just that sometimes the choices are very limited.

Can you choose to believe that 100,000 fire breathing dragons roam the plains of eastern Russia?

talquin · Dec 7, 2014

dysert said:
That's probably mostly true.

How would you go about choosing to believe in a god if there wasn't sufficient evidence to support that such god exists? Can you at this moment choose to believe that gods like Thor and Zeus exist?

talquin · Dec 7, 2014

juvenissun said:
Thousands of Christians tell you: Believe. Read the Bible.
That is how could you begin.

You CHOOSE not to begin.

Choosing to begin something is a choice. Believing something exists might be a result of one choosing to read something. But it isn't directly a choice.

For example, let's say you didn't know your cousin Fred had been to the moon. It was just something you had heard about. But from your knowledge of Fred, his being to the moon didn't add up right. So you choose to investigate further, reading lists of explorations to the moon and watching videos about this. Then you discover your cousin Fred is featured just as prominently in the videos as Neil Armstrong. Now your reaction would be that your belief is involuntary revised.

Ken-1122 · Dec 7, 2014

dysert said:
I believe I could. It may take several weeks or months, though.

How far can you take this? If Bill Gates were willing to pay you a billion dollars to believe you could fly like a bird, could you convince yourself that you could do this?

Ken

dysert · Dec 7, 2014

talquin said:
Can you choose to believe that there are 50,000 tiny orange men crawling around in the center of Jupiter?

No. I've chosen not to believe in extraterrestrials.

2PhiloVoid · Dec 7, 2014

talquin said:
If it is a choice, then let's say I claim that I own an interstellar time traveling spacecraft and that I've traveled to the Jurassic era and picked up a pet velociraptor. Could you choose to believe that?

It's..........relative.

If you made it back safely from the past, and I saw the 'little guy' you picked up in a cage (cuz' I'm assuming you'd be smart enough to either tranquilize his little behind or have him in a cage--despite what animal activists and PETA might say), and knowing that the physical laws of the universe "might, just might, even with the slimmest of possibilities," allow you to time-travel, then yes, I might possibly """choose""" to believe the highly, highly improbable.

Eudaimonist · Dec 7, 2014

dysert said:
No. I've chosen not to believe in extraterrestrials.

Can you choose to believe in them at will and really believe?

eudaimonia,

Mark

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2014

juvenissun said:
Thousands of Christians tell you: Believe. Read the Bible.
That is how could you begin.

You CHOOSE not to begin.

I've read the bible...it didn't work. Maybe the bible I read didn't have the magic brainwashing powers that yours has, but I have a hard time believing that is actually how you think it works. Just read the bible and suddenly you'll believe! Lol

As far as mythologies go, it's not even that good...
*Warning! My Metacritic user review of the Holy Bible to follow!*

I'd give it about a C+. The plotline was highly derivative... like when you go into a movie and halfway through you're thinking you've seen this movie before a hundred times. The characters are largely one-dimensional, except for the protagonist. He's so multidimensional that he's completely unrelatable as a character. I understand that this is a basic technique to make him stand out...but overdone it ruins any real attempt at connecting to the reader. The ending is obviously inspired by the Japanese with its tragedy mixed with triumph formula...which I get, but it's still so overdone these days. Frankly, the original was a lot better than the sequel...but only because it stuck to the tried and true formula of sex+violence=good reading. Maybe it's one of those stories that gets better the more you read it, but honestly I'm getting a little too old for the fantasy genre.

On a serious note though, if you read my entire post and not just the little snippet that you cut in order to reply, you'd see that I can't simply choose to believe because of how my brain works (read as: "my brain works"). I understand that you have to believe that belief is a choice for everyone, because if it wasn't, your god would be a pretty awful guy to be sending so many to hell for something they have no control over. However, reality is reality... and just wanting belief to be a personal choice doesn't make it so.

2PhiloVoid · Dec 7, 2014

bhsmte said:
One problem. Many non-believers became agnostics or atheists from doing just that; reading the bible. The more they read and investigated the book, the less believable the story became.

...and some of us became Christians by reading the Bible.

In fact, some of us even still choose Christianity after earning a B.A. in Philosophy, an academic direction that typically throws such students the 'other' way.

Ana the Ist · Dec 7, 2014

dysert said:
One place to begin is to try assessing the probability that the prophecies about Jesus could have all come true by chance. There are several OT prophecies - very specific - that relate to Jesus. Either someone knew in advance what would happen, or someone was able to *make* it all happen. Either way, there's some fodder for belief in something supernatural.

I don't think you would. As you read the Bible, God reveals Himself to you. You don't have to figure Him out first.

It's nice of you to say this, I'd even bet you believe it. However, if we began a discussion about who/what god is...we'll inevitably end up the same place that conversation always does. You'll claim that god can't really be understood by man.

Edit: I'm willing to consider prophecy as evidence. So, which prophecies do we know were fulfilled after they were written and had no real likelihood or expectations of just occurring?
For example: It wouldn't be much of a prophecy for me to claim that within a couple years, the U.S. will have a new president.

Non sequitur · Dec 7, 2014

dysert said:
It's a choice. There are plenty of words that I choose not to believe, and there are words that I choose to believe. Much of the time, it's a conscious choice.

I didn't say choosing to believe what the words mean, the sense of the words, their existence, or the validity of them, I said reading these words.

Do you choose to believe you are reading these words or do you believe that you are reading these words?

Davian · Dec 7, 2014

juvenissun said:
10% of your religion is not logically sound?

Click to expand...

Of course.

juvenissun said:
But don't worry, atheism is probably 100% logically sound, or limited.

Atheism is not a truth statement. Are you new to this?

juvenissun said:
Very boring.

It would be fallacious to evaluate truth statements on the basis of how exciting you found them to be.

Davian · Dec 7, 2014

Quote button still broken for you?

2PhiloVoid said:
Davian
Can you demonstrate that what I've stated is an excuse?

Sure.

Excuse - 1 attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify:

When asked for evidence for the existence of gods, you fell back on the 'what do you mean by "evidence"' line, as a defence, or justification for your failure to provide such evidence.

2PhiloVoid said:
Oh. So, what infallible epistemology do you subscribe to?

lol. Diversion tactic, and a straw-man at that. Where have I claimed infallibility? Try to stay on task.

2PhiloVoid said:
Well, you can lead a horse to water......

No, you have done no such thing. You have simply made claims of "water" (gods) but failed show that they are anything more than characters in books. You claim to have discovered a god, so show your work.

2PhiloVoid said:
It's called "methodological materialism." Surely, you've heard of it.

Labels tell me little. Again, show me how you "recognize" those "limits" in a manner that allows for "gods" but does not also leave the Earth covered in giant, invisible, immaterial marshmallows.

2PhiloVoid said:
I wasn't attempting to use any argument from antiquity; one from twenty years ago would suffice. My point is, we don't see anyone offering historical evidence of fairies, elves, etc. All of the ones I know about are in children's books, not history books. If you know something that I don't about fairies and elves, please enlighten me...

Fairy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Allow me to paraphrase: "There must be something more to gods compared to fairies and pixies, because gods have references to them in history books". Stories of gods in history books does not necessarily make them real.

Davian · Dec 7, 2014

dysert said:
Who said anything about a moment's notice?

How long did it take for you to decide to believe in a god?

How long would it take for you to disbelieve?

Davian · Dec 7, 2014

Ken-1122 said:
How did you go about convincing yourself that Santa was real?

Ken

"Convincing myself" would not be the right term. There was no conscious intent on my part.

link.

Davian · Dec 7, 2014

dysert said:
Why should there be (physical) evidence for the existence of God?

There shouldn't be, if gods are simply characters in books.

If you believe they are more than that, it begs the question: on what do you base that belief?

lesliedellow · Dec 7, 2014

" But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." (John 6.64-65)

No, you can't simply choose whether or not you believe in God. In Christian, or at least Calvinist, theology, the reason for that is original sin.

Faith has to be given by God, and he gives it to whom he will.

Is belief that a god exists a choice?

Is belief that a god exists a choice?

Yes

No

For some yes, for others no

Other (please explain)

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