Is belief in the creation story a salvation issue?

[dad]

A great many Christians believe in the Big Bang and evolution, all guided by God.

Which 'god'? Not the one in the bible that created the earth first before the stars and sun! Not the one that is Jesus! Having some limp noodle 'god' supposedly create the universe through some hot little soup no one could ever prove is foolishness. What was He, on vacation? Busy? Then He sent man Scripture that told us He did it?? Get serious.

Are you saying that those with that view will not be saved?

I am saying they are not informed about Scripture, or they have rejected it. I was saved long before I thought much about creation issues. I was not informed about the bible though.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

LOL! A false dichotomy. If you can't argue your position honestly, what good is it?

The blind man exclaimed "I CAN SEE ! I CAN SEE! "
and all his neighbors likewise saw him able to SEE !
they had known him from birth, and he had been BLIND.

Yet he did not know WHY HE COULD SEE !
When he met Jesus, He knew who healed Him. That's all.

When anyone follows Jesus, they know who heals them. Even if that's all,
that's enough. Follow Jesus.

Not the false gods of evolution and this world.

 

[Geralt]

creation points not just to origin but to God's person (personality), reason (motive) and relation (relating to man after he A & E were created). the salvation sense comes only after the fall, there is no reason for salvation or 'saving' if there was no falling.

what is evident is that instead of God creating another A&E and simply discarding the disobedient A&E, God then instead went into the process of 'saving' A&E and some of his descendants. the curse of sin /punishment was given, and yet He 'clothes' them to hide their guilt before sending them away. and clothing them with someone else's skin presumely suggest God killing the life of another (animal) in this case. Justice fell on them, yet in a way God still cares for them-> which of course culminated in the giving of God's Son to us.​

People spend a great deal of time debating the creation of the Earth and the creatures upon it. Some say the Genesis account is literal--God did it in six 24 hour days, Adam was the first man, Eve was the first woman. Others say that God used evolution to create man. Many fall somewhere between these two positions. Sometimes discussion here gets fairly heated.

My question: Does it really matter? Is this an issue that will determine one's salvation? If not, why do we spend so much time debating it? Why do some people seem determined to convert others to their view?

 

[Archivist]

Concerning evolution and all the other religions too:

5 Meanwhile, all the other people live however they wish,
picking and choosing their gods.
But we live honoring God,
and we’re loyal to our God forever and ever.

Evolution is not a religion.

 

[Archivist]

Which 'god'? Not the one in the bible that created the earth first before the stars and sun! Not the one that is Jesus! Having some limp noodle 'god' supposedly create the universe through some hot little soup no one could ever prove is foolishness. What was He, on vacation? Busy? Then He sent man Scripture that told us He did it?? Get serious.

Yes, the God of the Bible. Are you saying that He lacks the ability to create using whatever means he chooses?

I am saying they are not informed about Scripture, or they have rejected it. I was saved long before I thought much about creation issues. I was not informed about the bible though.

But that does not answer the question posed in the OP. Is it a salvation issue?

 

[Archivist]

creation points not just to origin but to God's person (personality), reason (motive) and relation (relating to man after he A & E were created). the salvation sense comes only after the fall, there is no reason for salvation or 'saving' if there was no falling.

what is evident is that instead of God creating another A&E and simply discarding the disobedient A&E, God then instead went into the process of 'saving' A&E and some of his descendants. the curse of sin /punishment was given, and yet He 'clothes' them to hide their guilt before sending them away. and clothing them with someone else's skin presumely suggest God killing the life of another (animal) in this case. Justice fell on them, yet in a way God still cares for them-> which of course culminated in the giving of God's Son to us.​

This does not answer the question in the OP--is it a salvation issue? No one who has responded in the affirmative has posted actual evidence to suppprt that it is.

 

[Speedwell]

Science based it's models on faith alone, so when you chose science claims over God's claims in His word you are merely stating belief in one rather than the other. Nothing more.

Faith in what, exactly?

Scientific models are evidence-based, falsifiable and consequently can only be regarded as provisional. A scientific theory is nothing but the best explanation for a given phenomenon that can be arrived at given the evidence at hand and there is nothing to rule out the possibility that a better explanation may replace it based on the discovery of new evidence. Whenever a scientific model is proposed you can be sure that there will be hordes of post-docs eagerly endeavoring to poke holes in it. Sometimes they succeed.

So where does faith come into it?

 

[rjs330]

Which 'god'? Not the one in the bible that created the earth first before the stars and sun! Not the one that is Jesus! Having some limp noodle 'god' supposedly create the universe through some hot little soup no one could ever prove is foolishness. What was He, on vacation? Busy? Then He sent man Scripture that told us He did it?? Get serious.


I am saying they are not informed about Scripture, or they have rejected it. I was saved long before I thought much about creation issues. I was not informed about the bible though.

Those that say God has chosen to create by evolution quite frankly have chosen to try and melt the bible with man's science. They have chosen to believe science over the bible. A lot of,times they haven't even spent a lot of time thinking it over and studying the scriptures o n the matter.

Thank God that our salvation isn't dependant on our need to,believe in creation rather than evolution. As we read in the letters to the churches there are a lot of unlearned believers. But those who do believe in evolution haven't really dug deep in my estimation. Either that or they are so enamored,with man's science that they believe the Genesis account just can't be right. Rather than being so enamored with Gods word that man's science can't be,right.

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[rjs330]

Faith in what, exactly?

Scientific models are evidence-based, falsifiable and consequently can only be regarded as provisional. A scientific theory is nothing but the best explanation for a given phenomenon that can be arrived at given the evidence at hand and there is nothing to rule out the possibility that a better explanation may replace it based on the discovery of new evidence. Whenever a scientific model is proposed you can be sure that there will be hordes of post-docs eagerly endeavoring to poke holes in it. Sometimes they succeed.

So where does faith come into it?

Because there is,no real evidence. It's a circular argument just like creation is. Evolution,is,assumed to be true therefore all evidence points to evolution. I say all evidence,points to common design and a designer.

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[Speedwell]

Because there is,no real evidence. It's a circular argument just like creation is. Evolution,is,assumed to be true therefore all evidence points to evolution. I say all evidence,points to common design and a designer.

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Wrong. The theory of evolution (nor any other scientific theory) is not "assumed to be true." The theory of evolution, like any other scientific theory, is falsifiable. That is, it is accepted provisionally and the kind evidence which would cause trouble for it is well understood and constantly looked for by scientists. To date, none has been found. If it was, then the theory would be discarded and join the ranks of other failed theories, like the luminiferous aether, the phlogiston theory of heat and the geocentric solar system.

If you want to falsify the theory of evolution, you have to bring in the evidence. You can't just fabricate slanderous falsehoods about how science is conducted. That won't get you anywhere.

 

[dad]

Yes, the God of the Bible. Are you saying that He lacks the ability to create using whatever means he chooses?

The God of the bible cannot lie. If He sys He formed man one fine day, He did. If He says earth was made, and later the sun...it was. Etc. Whatever god you think was hanging around watching the big bang created the universe is NOT Jesus.

But that does not answer the question posed in the OP. Is it a salvation issue?

No. But it is important, and it is a serious issue for teachers to be teaching that sort of thing.

 

[dad]

Faith in what, exactly?

Just look at any of the models of science about the future or past, They ALL assume that things came to exist as a result of the physics we know. (of course except for the extreme early phase of their fantasy about the universe sailing out of a little speck, and maybe also about what black holes might be like)

Scientific models are evidence-based, falsifiable and consequently can only be regarded as provisional.

No. 100% belief based, no support whatsoever for the foundation premise they use in all models!

A scientific theory is nothing but the best explanation for a given phenomenon that can be arrived at given the evidence at hand and there is nothing to rule out the possibility that a better explanation may replace it based on the discovery of new evidence.

False. It is a selective criteria that is used TO explain all things that is 100% religion...faith...godless twaddle.

Whenever a scientific model is proposed you can be sure that there will be hordes of post-docs eagerly endeavoring to poke holes in it. Sometimes they succeed.

They all use the same belief system. Irrelevant.

 

[dad]

Those that say God has chosen to create by evolution quite frankly have chosen to try and melt the bible with man's science. They have chosen to believe science over the bible.

Bingo.

A lot of,times they haven't even spent a lot of time thinking it over and studying the scriptures o n the matter.

After they toss out creation and Scripture and God, thinking becomes a wasted endeavor. They then have no possible hope to find the truth.

Thank God that our salvation isn't dependant on our need to,believe in creation rather than evolution. As we read in the letters to the churches there are a lot of unlearned believers. But those who do believe in evolution haven't really dug deep in my estimation. Either that or they are so enamored,with man's science that they believe the Genesis account just can't be right. Rather than being so enamored with Gods word that man's science can't be,right.

God wants us to love and believe Him more than man.

 

[Geralt]

perhaps you have not been reading clearly, their is NO need for salvation before the fall for there was no creation in need of saving. after the fall however is a different matter. now if your creation timeline includes both periods (before and after the fall), then 'salvation issue' becomes part of creation.

This does not answer the question in the OP--is it a salvation issue? No one who has responded in the affirmative has posted actual evidence to suppprt that it is.

 

[Archivist]

perhaps you have not been reading clearly, their is NO need for salvation before the fall for there was no creation in need of saving. after the fall however is a different matter. now if your creation timeline includes both periods (before and after the fall), then 'salvation issue' becomes part of creation.

Sorry but you are the one who is not reading clearly. We are not discussing whether there was a need for salvation was necessary before the fall. We are discussing whether a belief in a literal creation story is necessary for salvation for those of us alive today. I don't believe that it is.

 

[Archivist]

And to keep this thread on point, remember that we are specifically discussing whether belief in the Genesis creation stories is necessary for salvation.

 

[rjs330]

And to keep this thread on point, remember that we are specifically discussing whether belief in the Genesis creation stories is necessary for salvation.

Thanks,for getting us back on track.

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[Speedwell]

Sola Fides rules it out. We are saved by our faith in Christ--the Gospels are pretty clear about this.

Struggling to accept the crackpot interpretation of Genesis promoted by YEC Bible cults is a work. We are not saved by works.

 

[Geralt]

apologies then. But the answer is still Yes. It takes faith to believe in creation. and therefore NOT to believe is UNBELIEF in God himself, not just unbelief in scripture (or parts of it). and without FAITH it is impossible to please God.

Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
​

its a no-brainer really, a person don't get saved and go to heaven where the person does NOT believe in the creator who owns heaven and created it.​

Sorry but you are the one who is not reading clearly. We are not discussing whether there was a need for salvation was necessary before the fall. We are discussing whether a belief in a literal creation story is necessary for salvation for those of us alive today. I don't believe that it is.

 

[Archivist]

apologies then. But the answer is still Yes. It takes faith to believe in creation. and therefore NOT to believe is UNBELIEF in God himself, not just unbelief in scripture (or parts of it). and without FAITH it is impossible to please God.

Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
​

its a no-brainer really, a person don't get saved and go to heaven where the person does NOT believe in the creator who owns heaven and created it.​

But it isn't a matter of not believing in the creator. Many Christians believe that Gid created everything while not believing in a literal interpretation of Genesis.