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You didn't answer my question.Atheists respect a great many junk-science blind-faith notions that I do not think are objective or difficult to see through.
is that supposed to be news??
None of what you have quoted says that belief in the Genesis account of creation is a salvation issue. Care to find something that backs your claim?In "theory" this thread is about what the Bible says regarding the significance of the Bible account of creation and how it pertains to the Gospel - salvation.
Which got this response.
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As we saw here that -- the Word of God places the creation fact - as the basis for true worship.
Rev 14:6-7
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
Revelation 4:
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
11 “You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created.”
John 1
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Genes 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
=============================================
T.E's have found a "tiny island" for themselves and Bible believing Christians are not going there with them - neither are the atheists and agnostics apparently. (I don't see many Hindus or Buddhists arguing that the Bible is true - except it is bent to preach darwinism)
You mean details like, that if evolution were false we would find fossils of all life forms, both plant and animal, in all layers of sedimentary strata, while conversely we find them distributed throughout in exactly the way evolution would have to have it to be valid.Until you read the details.
What the think or thought makes no difference.Reading the details - then Darwin, Dawkins, Provine.. P.Z. Meyers all freely admit to the atheist position in evolutionism's orthodoxy that totally opposes the Bible.
They certainly do as I just pointed out.Details matter.
Am I to understand that Christians, including Christian Denominations, that accept evolution, are atheists according to you?And by that you mean "admitting to what the text says" ??
===============================
Not to worry - even the atheists can see that elephant in your living room.
Good point RickG. And it is safe to say that the majority of Christians belong to churches that either believe that evolution occurred or at the very least do not dispute the possibility that it occurred.Am I to understand that Christians, including Christian Denominations, that accept evolution, are atheists according to you?
Am I to understand that Christians, including Christian Denominations, that accept evolution, are atheists according to you?
None of what you have quoted says that belief in the Genesis account of creation is a salvation issue.
Atheist-creationism (evolutionism)?
Bob, the theory of evolution has absolutely nothing to do with atheism
Yes, it contradicts a literal interpretation of Genesis, but that doesn't make it atheism.
You mean details like, that if evolution were false we would find fossils of all life forms, both plant and animal, in all layers of sedimentary strata
Do you have any non-YEC sources for that opinion?No you are to understand that some christians unwittingly adopt the atheist doctrine on origins - simply by holding both the Bible and science at such a distance from their beliefs that they are unaware of the "details".
Bob, out of respect, would you please refrain from referring to the Theory of Evolution as "atheist doctrine" or atheist? As a former member (retired) of the scientific community and a Christian, I view that as highly offensive. Science is secular, not atheist. The two are not related. Thank you.No you are to understand that some christians unwittingly adopt the atheist doctrine on origins - simply by holding both the Bible and science at such a distance from their beliefs that they are unaware of the "details".
I did read your post several times. There is no indication in it that belief in the Genesis creation account is a salvation issue. From what I am finding it appears that the vast majority of Christians either belong to churches that accept evolution as real or that recognize it as a possibility. Therefore it is not an atheist doctrine as you keep saying. It appears that only a handful of conservative fundamentalists regard it as a salvation issue, yet none in this thread have been able to offer any Biblical support for that view.until you read the post instead of ignoring every detail in it.
I did read your post several times. .
What you have not shown is that John is not informed by Genesis 1, does not accept it... does not think his readers are informed by it... assumes they reject... will let you just 'make up what you wish'.
Notice that John 1 is not blind faith evolutionism - just as Genesis 1 is not.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Genes 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
And "yes" John knew of Ex 20:11 so also did his readers
Bob, out of respect, would you please refrain from referring to the Theory of Evolution as "atheist doctrine" or atheist?
As a former member (retired) of the scientific community and a Christian, I view that as highly offensive.
Science is secular, not atheist.
You need to be respectful of everyone. I have trouble with that myself on occasion, but I try to keep my comments focused on the scientific argument rather than the person(s).That would not be respectful of Darwin, Dawkins, Provine, Meyers and many other former Christians who all argue that blind faith evolutionism drove them to reject their own Christian faith and adopt atheism.
I am offended by the categorization of anyone, or group of people who actually understand the theory of evolution and accept it as valid based on the science(s) they understand, as opposed as being classified as an atheist or accepting "atheist doctrine". The Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with atheists or atheist doctrine. It is secular science, nothing more, nothing less.It makes no sense to be "offended" that the atheists and thought-leaders of evolutionism as listed above "existed" and in fact declared the truth about the atheism we find in evolutionism.
What about other sciences such as Geology, Geophysics, Geochemistry, Geomorphology, Oceanogat israphy, Paleo-oceanography, Paleo-climatology, etc.......?Physics,
Math,
Biology,
Chemistry
There's another problem, calling any science you don't like corrupted and story telling. That my friend is belittlement. And bacteria do not turn into rabbits. That is not even presenting a valid argument. What is the validity in arguing something that one has absolutely no background or knowledge about?All of them can be objective and pure science when not corrupted with "story telling" about how a bacteria will turn into a rabbit over time given a talented enough bacteria and a long and talented enough period of time - filled with improbable just-so stories that are easy enough to tell - but as Patterson said "are not science".
Pure science is pure science regardless whether you agree with it or not. If you don't agree with it or like it just state so and cut out the belittling comments.pure science is not atheist nor Christian necessarily as can be seen with 2+2 or with the chiral orientation of amino acids that form during a lab experiment.
There you go again belittling something you know absolutely nothing about.But junk-science evolutionism about bacteria that turn into rabbits... well that is another matter altogether.
I explained why I was offended by your comments. I am a part of that community. You belittle them, you belittle me.Instead of being "offended" at the distinctively atheist nature of the argument for blind-faith evolutionism (As if that is some sort of "solution") -- why not respond to the subject title and the texts that so specifically and irrefutably answer the question?
Bob, out of respect, would you please refrain from referring to the Theory of Evolution as "atheist doctrine" or atheist?
As a former member (retired) of the scientific community and a Christian, I view that as highly offensive.
Science is secular, not atheist.
You need to be respectful of everyone. I have trouble with that myself on occasion,
I am offended by the categorization of anyone, or group of people who actually understand the theory of evolution and accept it as valid based on the science(s) they understand, as opposed as being classified as an atheist or accepting "atheist doctrine".
The Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with atheists or atheist doctrine.
Science is secular, not atheist.
What about other sciences such as Geology, Geophysics, Geochemistry, Geomorphology, Oceanogat israphy, Paleo-oceanography, Paleo-climatology, etc.......?
There's another problem, calling any science you don't like corrupted and story telling. That my friend is belittlement.
That is not even presenting a valid argument.
There's another problem, calling any science you don't like corrupted and story telling. That my friend is belittlement.
then you saw this --
In "theory" this thread is about what the Bible says regarding the significance of the Bible account of creation and how it pertains to the Gospel - salvation.
Which got this response.
====================================
As we saw here that -- the Word of God places the creation fact - as the basis for true worship.
Rev 14:6-7
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
Revelation 4:
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
11 “You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created.”
John 1
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.
Genes 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
=============================================
T.E's have found a "tiny island" for themselves and Bible believing Christians are not going there with them - neither are the atheists and agnostics apparently. (I don't see many Hindus or Buddhists arguing that the Bible is true - except it is bent to preach darwinism)
===================================================
And apparently had no answer for this post than to ignore every detail listed as if blind or could not see for some other reason.
Which is about what we would have expected since these are Bible texts.
It makes no sense to be "offended" that the atheists and thought-leaders of evolutionism as listed above "existed" and in fact declared the truth about the atheism we find in evolutionism.
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