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But that is circular, depending on what you think constitutes the credibility of God with respect to the creation stories.i was responding to whether God deserves credibility or not, which is crucial to establish before even venturing on salvation.
Unless God is credible, how can He be trusted whole-heartedly, which is required for salvation?
(you don't likes da Snoops?)
But that is circular, depending on what you think constitutes the credibility of God with respect to the creation stories.
A person who interprets them differently than you might have just as much confidence in God's credibility as you do.
Undoubtedly. Does He mean what you think He says? That is a different question entirely.
But don't you see how circular that reasoning is? Not taking Genesis literally is not the same thing as "unbelief in scripture."
We agree that the author did not witness creation. So what is wrong with reading the two differing accounts in Genesis as allegories? And why would viewing the accounts as allegories be a salvation issue?unbelief is NOT against scripture, but against God. moses did not pen Genesis like he was an eyewitness to the event of creation. so in a sense it is unlike a historical fact for the main reason the author never witnessed it nor heard from reliable witnesses. but it is considered a revelation - God authored/revealed. so you only have 2 choices, the way of faith or the way of unbelief/fiction.
But a great many Christians who believe in theistic evolution do believe in a Creator. Exactly how does a belief in evolution preclude a belief in a Creator? That has been claimed in this thread but has yet to be explained.
But I clearly said in my earlier comment that I was referencing Christians--those of us who have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior--who believe in theistic evolution. Exactly how would that preclude salvation?you dont have to be a christian to believe in theistic evolution, pagan gods of other religions as well follow similar lines - God or their god created the initial building block and thereafter moved aside and let the blocks 'evolve' into different species.
however we are NOT discussing just about the idea of a creator or any creator (for that matter) but the CREATOR/ YAHWEH revealed within the pages of scripture that created all creation (sun, moon, stars, animals, etc..) ex-nihilo (except man formed dust and given a spirit); which is direct contrast with what evolution suggests: building blocks and species branch out in a kind of sequential order (fish-> (became/evolve to ) land animals -> (became/evolve to) birds.
the answer to your question: NO it will not preclude a belief in a creator, but will preclude belief in the CREATOR found in the pages of scripture. morally the evolutionist (theistic or natural) tempts to say the same lines as the serpent 'hath God said?'
The reason I accept Genesis as literal is because of the wording one the passages itself. And it was verified in Exodus.Nor did I ever say that the Bible is "wrong," that isn't the point I'm trying to make. Sorry if I gave that impression. As I said, bats were included as birds because the people at that time did not understand the difference between mammals and birds. If a creature had wings it was a bird. However, we aren't bound to follow that literally today.
Likewise, if we are not bound to see a bat as a bird why would we be bound to see a literal six day Genesis account of creation as being anything other than an allegory, the purpose of which was to tell a simplistic people that God created everything in a way that they would understand? Why would failure to accept a literal reading of Genesis deny salvation to a Christian?
And how does anything you have said require a belief in one or both of the Genesis creation accounts in order to be saved?The reason I accept Genesis as literal is because of the wording one the passages itself. And it was verified in Exodus.
The other part of creation by evolution that I think defies the bible is the fact that,man was uniquely created. Evolution proclaims that all things came from a common ancestor, whereas creation makes that impossible because we are unique in Gods creation. We alone were created in Gods image by his hands and breath. We alone have been given the spirit of God, we alone have the ability to sin. We alone have the ability to hear the word of God and the tug of the Spirit. We alone were given the Law and the New Covenant. We alone have the ability to accept Christ into,our lives and we alone have the ability to live for him. We alone will rise from the grave and be judged by Jesus. We alone will receive eternal reward and eternal punishment. We alone will be,taken up to,meet him in the clouds at his coming if we are,still alive. We alone have the ability to accept or reject His salvation.
This is the truth of Genesis. Not a man made scientific belief that we all came from a blob of cellular mass that evolved into,everything on this planet.
I'm afraid it is. You will search in vain for the doctrine of Plenary Verbal Inspiration or the doctrine of Perspicuity as conceived by YECs in Christian writing prior to a couple of hundred years ago. My opinion of it is that it is a reaction to the discoveries of science about our origins heavily influenced by the Darbyite heresy. Allegories aren't true? In any case, you have perpetrated a false dichotomy. There are many more possibilities than "allegory" and "true." Yes, and I also observe that Jesus was careful to indicate that he was referring to the texts themselves, not necessarily the events behind them, "Have you not read...?" so we have no information at all about whether he thought them 100% accurate literal history. That facts should be allowed to get in the way of a good story is the modern notion, as any scholar of ancient literature can tell you.
No it's not. Ancient writers accepted,the authority of scripture and the history of it. Paul,spoke of the inspiration of the prophets scriptures. All this intellectual mumbo jumbo is a relatively new phenomenon. As secular scholars begin to look at scriptures they begin to,twist the truth contained in its pages. The ancients just believed what was written. They didn't try to disprove it or explain it away. They just flat believed it.
When Jesus said "have you not read," he obviously was referring the old testament. He was referring to scripture. There is absolutely NO indication in his statements that what he was referring to was some sort of story that was not true, but merely a story to indicate a,truth. He referred to as it was,in the days of Noah, so it will be.... That is an indicator as to a reality of things as they were and the reference Noah as a person. When you then take what he says about how things,will be is an indicator of how the world will be as a fact. Tie these together and only a deliberate attempt to distort the what he was saying because one wishes NOT to believe is what is going on.
The reason I accept Genesis as literal is because of the wording one the passages itself. And it was verified in Exodus.
The other part of creation by evolution that I think defies the bible is the fact that,man was uniquely created. Evolution proclaims that all things came from a common ancestor, whereas creation makes that impossible because we are unique in Gods creation. We alone were created in Gods image by his hands and breath. We alone have been given the spirit of God, we alone have the ability to sin. We alone have the ability to hear the word of God and the tug of the Spirit. We alone were given the Law and the New Covenant. We alone have the ability to accept Christ into,our lives and we alone have the ability to live for him. We alone will rise from the grave and be judged by Jesus. We alone will receive eternal reward and eternal punishment. We alone will be,taken up to,meet him in the clouds at his coming if we are,still alive. We alone have the ability to accept or reject His salvation.
What's the difference whether God made us out of dust or (uniquely) out of some precursor primate? How would that affect our salvation
What's the difference whether God made us out of dust or (uniquely) ....
Brinny has the Witness and Testimony of Yeshua,Undoubtedly. Does He mean what you think He says? That is a different question entirely.
GOOD! AT LEAST YOU LISTEN TO THE AUTHOR and speak as He Speaks, and not like the ... ... ... ... others !i'm not the Author of the Word of God.
He is.
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." ~Proverbs 3:5-6
Where did you get the idea that I rule out the supernatural?Matthew 13:58 If you believe Jesus is who he said he was then could you rule out the supernatural ? And if you believe the smallest supernatural event then you can't rule out anything . I would love to hear your testimony . Does it include power from God or is it just another run of the mill powerless religion ? Besides , if God can't do everything he says what's your point in trying to look for loop holes , just cut the light out and go home ?
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