Is assurance of salvation possible?

Rescued One · Nov 3, 2018

David Cabrera said:
So does it depend how I am acting?

How a person acts depends on whether that person is a sheep or a goat.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 3, 2018

David Cabrera said:
I would say probably not since God is the final judge or I might become an Apostate. What do you think?

Paul was assured of salvation and more because he had walked with Christ, knew him, and had finished the task given to him. When one walks with God one has assurance. Same as I am assured of many other things in other relationships.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 3, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
How a person acts depends on whether that person is a sheep or a goat.

Or how one acts makes one over time a sheep or a goat.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 3, 2018

bcbsr said:
Good point. Confidence in the promise of God shows one trusts in Christ.

Some tell themselves they are believing the promises of Christ but really only the ones they like. The promises that require something, those many don’t belief but ignore.

[/quote]And along with you I believe salvation being contingent upon trusting Christ alone, in contrast to the salvation by works crowd who trust in their works to qualify them to be saved.[/quote] Strawman. No one who believes we need to obey God is trusting their works for salvation. This is an untruth you tell yourselves for comfort.

Concerning this quality of saving faith Paul writes in Romans 4:20,21 of Abraham's faith as a precedent to follow "he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised."

Look into what God requires the man to do. He did not merely believe and go about his own business.

However even given this, salvation being contingent upon saving faith, one may still evaluate themselves (or others) as to whether the quality (and object) of their faith is the kind that saves.

How do you do this? What is your standard?

St_Worm2 · Nov 3, 2018

Oscarr said:
"I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day" (1 Timothy 1:12).

There is a good book which is downloadable as a PDF. It is called "An Alarm To The Unconverted" By Joseph Alleine. This is a comprehensive study on what true conversion to Christ is and what it is not. If you want to be sure about your conversion to Christ, I recommend you download it and read it through. You will find the link to it on Google.

It was first published in 1671, and the latest update was in 1999. It takes all the guesswork out of it and really makes you know whether you are truly converted or not, and what to do if you find that you need to do more to ensure that your conversion is genuine.

Thanks Oscarr Just to let you know, I found a free copy of the book you recommended with the Editor's Preface dated May 4th, 2010 (in MOBI/Kindle format) here: Alarm to Unconverted Sinners (eBook) | Monergism

--David

HatGuy · Nov 3, 2018

David Cabrera said:
I don't believe in faith alone.

And so you will never have assurance

Oldmantook · Nov 3, 2018

redleghunter said:
General comment.

In Romans 8 we see those who are in Christ have assurance. Romans 8 does early on show what attributes are present for this assurance and later shows God’s Sovereignty in providing and equipping us.

As I mentioned earlier, I don’t think an individual Christian can acknowledge or know this assurance unless they are truly living in the Spirit by walking in Him.

This is what we call Sanctification. We are progressively conformed to the Image of Christ. The assurance is God said He would do it. As He Justified us and will Glorify us.

This is no check list to holiness. But the very desire to be holy like He is.

If we know His love and we love Him, we will love each other as He loved us. I know quite a standard, therefore praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ He gave His all for us.

Romans 8 indeed has assurance - but only for those who live according to the Spirit. V.1 states: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" (NKJV). No condemnation is only promised to those in Christ Jesus who do not walk according the flesh. This clause is absent in most other English translations because of manuscript differences. However, v.4 present in all English translations confirms this clause: that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Thus you are correct in stating that having assurance in only known by those truly living in the Spirit by walking in Him.

However, the word "might" indicates possibility; not certainty as those in Christ have the choice of whether to walk according to the Spirit or whether to cater to the flesh. Paul then goes on in v.13 to warn the brethren living in Rome: "For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." Paul warns that those brethren who choose to live according to the flesh will spiritually die. This cannot refer to physical death because everyone physically dies irrespective of how they live/conduct their lives. Therefore, one's lack of sanctification because of a lifestyle not marked by obedience but instead choosing to walk according to the flesh leads to no assurance whatsoever and spiritual death; i.e. forfeiture of salvation.

Not David · Nov 3, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
How a person acts depends on whether that person is a sheep or a goat.

But a person who was a goat can become a sheep, like those who weren't Christians but became ones.

Not David · Nov 3, 2018

Dorothy Mae said:
Paul was assured of salvation and more because he had walked with Christ, knew him, and had finished the task given to him. When one walks with God one has assurance. Same as I am assured of many other things in other relationships.

Well, Paul talks about the possibility of losing salvation in 1 Corinthians 9:27:
"but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

Not David · Nov 3, 2018

Well, it seems assurance with salvation is based on faith alone, however, faith alone doesn't even mean there is a chance you won't stop believing in the future. Besides the strawmen attacks toward Orthodoxy, it has been an interesting thread.

HatGuy · Nov 3, 2018

David Cabrera said:
Well, it seems assurance with salvation is based on faith alone, however, faith alone doesn't even mean there is a chance you won't stop believing in the future. Besides the strawmen attacks toward Orthodoxy, it has been an interesting thread.

Faith is a continuous thing.

And to be "Faith alone" in your approach does not mean you are Calvinist.

Lutherans are "Faith alone" but believe you can lose your salvation if you stop having Faith.

Classical Arminians are "Faith alone" and believe salvation can be lost with a loss of Faith.

But Faith alone is what produces assurance.

St_Worm2 · Nov 3, 2018

David Cabrera said:
...a person who was a goat can become a sheep, like those who weren't Christians but became ones.

Hi David, here is something else to consider. God has both known and loved those of us who are His from everlasting .. Jeremiah 31:3, from before the foundations of the world were laid.. e.g. Ephesians 1:4-6. Goats are goats, and sheep are sheep.

Matthew 25
31 When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

--David

John 10
24 The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me.
26 But you do not believe ~because~ you are not of My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand".
.

Dorothy Mae · Nov 3, 2018

David Cabrera said:
Well, Paul talks about the possibility of losing salvation in 1 Corinthians 9:27:
"but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

Salvation can be lost by neglect. God is not keeping it for us. So I agree.

SeventyOne · Nov 3, 2018

David Cabrera said:
Well, Paul talks about the possibility of losing salvation in 1 Corinthians 9:27:
"but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

Dorothy Mae said:
Salvation can be lost by neglect. God is not keeping it for us. So I agree.

The thrust of the chapter is Paul concerned about loss of reward, not salvation.

Blade · Nov 3, 2018

You know they would off up something every year.. and that SIN just got covered... now this lamb that John said.. behold the lamb of God that takes away the SINS of the world.

And this GOD can not lie.. HE is not like man.. nor thinks like one. So..when HE said.. if YOU believe in me I will give you ever lasting life. Thats it....there is no ..oops I took it back lol...we need to take HIM at His word..

What I am about to say I can not make it real for you.. its something YOU must. (the same power that rose Jesus from the graved ...lives in us...SONG PLAYING) YESHUA/JESUS is real...for me.. I am home... its not just my GOD..Hes my Father.. not just a word.. He IS my Father.. and nothing can take that from me.. no one EVER can take me out of His hands.

This SALVATION is not of man.. nor MAN has any say over it about it. It came from the ONE that MADE ALL. When I saw through His eyes.. that not ONE on this earth knew how much He loved them.. as He was crying so hard....that not ONE saved or lost KNEW How much HE loved us..... you see it here huh..

We STILL have no clue how much HE loves us.. He came died.. gave His life.. gave us this gift.. GAVE IT to you and STILL we question it

Oldmantook · Nov 3, 2018

SeventyOne said:
The thrust of the chapter is Paul concerned about loss of reward, not salvation.

Your assertion is incorrect. I suggest you study the Greek word translated as disqualified in 1 Cor 9:27 which is adokimos. "But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that having preached to others I myself should not be disqualified" (adokimos | ἀδόκιμος | nom sg masc).
It is the same word used elsewhere for example in Romans 1:28. "And as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a debased (adokimon | ἀδόκιμον | acc sg masc) mind, to do things that ought not to be done."
It is clear that the context of Rom 1:28 refers to unsaved people. Thus the same word in 1 Cor 9:27 refers to being disqualified as in loss of salvation - not loss of reward - as you claim.

Mark Quayle · Nov 3, 2018

David Cabrera said:
I would say probably not since God is the final judge or I might become an Apostate. What do you think?

I have read a few responses to your question, and your responses to them. Perhaps you didn't follow one of the responses well --salvation is of God. No matter what you feel, the assurance comes from the bare fact that God does exactly what he sets out to do, and nobody can deter him from accomplishing it.

Now whether or not you feel that assurance is another matter, and pretty much irrelevant as to whether or not you are saved. But maybe the way you feel about it is what you were asking about.

And whether or not you are indeed indwelt by God himself is of the utmost importance, as to your salvation. But again, it is not your decision that determines that.

But for what it is worth: My feeling of assurance no longer even considers the question except as a goad to keep me faithful. My assurance does not deal with whether I am one of those who God has chosen for his own, but from the absolute security in the fact that the Judge of all the Earth will do what is right with his creation. At this point, I can't help but feel like if I am rejected, he is still to be praised. (Granted, if on that day, I am rejected, I will not be thanking him for that, but will indeed acknowledge that he is righteous.

aiki · Nov 3, 2018

David Cabrera said:
I would say probably not since God is the final judge or I might become an Apostate. What do you think?

Absolutely you can know for sure that you are saved.

1 John 5:13
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Paul also wrote in a way that indicated to his readers that he thought they were already saved and needed to live in accord with this fact.

Romans 6:11
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:30
30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Ephesians 1:5-7
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Ephesians 1:13-14
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

And so on.

Only "tares" become apostate. Many there are who claim to be children of God who are no such thing. And these false converts often fall away from the fellowship of believers. The apostle John remarked on such people:

1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Invalidusername · Nov 3, 2018

No you cannot have assurance. Maybe God loves you enough to spare you and maybe He doesn't.

Free will is an illusion. God may allow you to become an apostate or He may spare you from that fate.

Not David · Nov 3, 2018

Blade said:
You know they would off up something every year.. and that SIN just got covered... now this lamb that John said.. behold the lamb of God that takes away the SINS of the world.

And this GOD can not lie.. HE is not like man.. nor thinks like one. So..when HE said.. if YOU believe in me I will give you ever lasting life. Thats it....there is no ..oops I took it back lol...we need to take HIM at His word..

What I am about to say I can not make it real for you.. its something YOU must. (the same power that rose Jesus from the graved ...lives in us...SONG PLAYING) YESHUA/JESUS is real...for me.. I am home... its not just my GOD..Hes my Father.. not just a word.. He IS my Father.. and nothing can take that from me.. no one EVER can take me out of His hands.

This SALVATION is not of man.. nor MAN has any say over it about it. It came from the ONE that MADE ALL. When I saw through His eyes.. that not ONE on this earth knew how much He loved them.. as He was crying so hard....that not ONE saved or lost KNEW How much HE loved us..... you see it here huh..

We STILL have no clue how much HE loves us.. He came died.. gave His life.. gave us this gift.. GAVE IT to you and STILL we question it

Yes, God does lie but the Bible also warns us to keep in obedience to God. God doesn't take away our free will to choose him, so we can reject him too.

Is assurance of salvation possible?

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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