Is assassination a new Family Value?

[If Not For Grace]

assassination a new Family Value?

actually it is as "old as the hills"


Cain/Able

et tu Brutus?

 

[freewilly]

Hey there. Glad to see there is someone else around here that does not condemn people because they make a mistake. God bless ya!

I am not condeming the man, that is not my place but what he did was hardly a mistake. It is what he thinks, that Chavez should be taken out; murdered. He gave all his reasons for it on the Monday night broadcast. It was not a mistkae he meant what he said and if no one raised an eyebrow about it he would not have half-heartedly retracted his comment after lieing about what he said.

 

[Milla]

In all actuality I was speaking to the Protestants about this. I understand why you have no issue with the trashing of one of those who Christ bought.

What is THAT supposed to mean?

 

[BarbB]

Hey there. Glad to see there is someone else around here that does not condemn people because they make a mistake. God bless ya!

I can't condemn him - my mouth has gotten me into more trouble than I care to think about.

And I can understand about speaking out in frustration. Honestly - folks - have you never said anything that you wish you could take back? I guess not.

 

[gaijin178]

Yes, I have said things that I have wished that I did not. I have made many mistakes in my life. I have not, however, gone on TV and asked that someone be killed because I didn't like his policy and thought that he was a threat to America. If that was the case, I would have said that first about the President of the US before even thinking about Chavez. But that is another story.

Eldy, It seems to me that you feel that if Christians criticize this man, than it is somehow airing the Christian's diry laundry so to speak. When in reality, those Christians are speaking up because they understand that what PR is doing and saying is not Christlike and they don't want to be lumped into his catagory of Christianity. One that I would think that Christ Himself would be unhappy about. If PR would have called for the assasination of all illegal immigrants, would you still protect his interests as well? Or what about calling for the assination of all people who are gay? Would you want to keep that one quiet too?

 

[Milla]

I can't condemn him - my mouth has gotten me into more trouble than I care to think about.

And I can understand about speaking out in frustration. Honestly - folks - have you never said anything that you wish you could take back? I guess not.

Well, I've never misspoken on the level of CALLING FOR SOMEONE'S DEATH ON NATIONAL TV. And then tried to lie about it. (And it wasn't as though he was speaking candidly in an interview or something and was driven to stumble over his words - he was speaking on his own planned show!) I do not condemn him but I do condemn his words and his actions surrounding those words. And I think he should step down, before he does more damage.

 

[Velo Princesse]

I have said things in passing that I wished I could take back, but I have never given a well thought out speech that I wish I could take back. Mostly because sometime during the planning I realized it was a bad idea.

Like I said before, he didn't try to take it back or say it was a mistake, he tried to say that he never said it at all.

 

[Vastavus]

What is THAT supposed to mean?

Seriously. Along with the Protestant remark, what is with the whole "Don't trash Robertson in front of the Pagans" thing? Why are Christians to keep quiet when one of their 'leaders' makes a distasteful and stupid remark?

What Robertson said was wrong. If Christians just sweep it under the rug and don't call him on that, how do you think that looks to Non-Christians? It makes a mockery of your whole belief, it is as if you need to put up a front to make Christianity credible, and to hide what your members really stand for.

I suppose either way this incident is played it will help hasten Fundamentalist Christianity's inevitable decline in America. No offense, but the end of people who think like Robertson could not come a day too soon.

Also, I am not Pagan, I am a Deist.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Seriously. Along with the Protestant remark, what is with the whole "Don't trash Robertson in front of the Pagans" thing? Why are Christians to keep quiet when one of their 'leaders' makes a distasteful and stupid remark?

What Robertson said was wrong. If Christians just sweep it under the rug and don't call him on that, how do you think that looks to Non-Christians? It makes a mockery of your whole belief, it is as if you need to put up a front to make Christianity credible, and to hide what your members really stand for.

I suppose either way this incident is played it will help hasten Fundamentalist Christianity's inevitable decline in America. No offense, but the end of people who think like Robertson could not come a day too soon.

Also, I am not Pagan, I am a Deist.

Denouncing a errored public comment is one thing, rebuking and spiritual matters that follow are not for display other than between believers. It's pretty simple.

 

[Eldy]

Maybe your right, but I know one thing... I'm not arrogant enough to say something like that on TV and then give a blatent lie as an explanation and believe everyone will believe me.

Why are your panties in such a wad over this guy anyway? It seems like this would be one of those times in the Body of Christ when you would want to pluck out the eye that causes sin.

Well, again, being a unitarian you are justified in not understanding these things.

The Bible says nothing about plucking out anyone from the Body. It is very clear that no power on earth or anywhere else is even able to do this as the believer is in the hands of Christ. It does say that when someone lives in sin and refuses to repent that we are to remove them from fellowship. I do not see where Pat is "living in sin" or that he has refused to repent. What I see is a bunch of people who are living the parable of the unjust servant who received such a great forgiveness yet refused to give that to someone who was in need of less from them. Remember what happened to that person? He was cast into prison until he could repay for his debt, which is impossible as the debt it alludes to is sin.

Refusing to forgive and bashing another member of the Body of Christ is a clear path to having Christ refuse to forgive your sins.

Again, maybe you should really look into what the Bible teaches and not a left wing unitarian distortion.

 

[Eldy]

I am not condeming the man, that is not my place but what he did was hardly a mistake. It is what he thinks, that Chavez should be taken out; murdered. He gave all his reasons for it on the Monday night broadcast. It was not a mistkae he meant what he said and if no one raised an eyebrow about it he would not have half-heartedly retracted his comment after lieing about what he said.

So now you are a prophet and can tell the thoughts of another mans heart? Who are you to say what this man thinks and what he is inside? If you have received Christ's forgiveness you have no right to turn around and act so condemningly. It is a terrible indictment when the Body of Christ acts like a troop of demons. Pandering to the world and in front of it is a shame.

 

[Eldy]

Yes, I have said things that I have wished that I did not. I have made many mistakes in my life. I have not, however, gone on TV and asked that someone be killed because I didn't like his policy and thought that he was a threat to America.

Ah, that old sin of comparative wrong. As long as you perceive yourself to be less of a sinner then Pat, you can pump yourself up as better then him. A ploy of the enemy as old as creation.

 

[Vastavus]

Denouncing a errored public comment is one thing, rebuking and spiritual matters that follow are not for display other than between believers.

Please explain.

 

[Eldy]

Well, I've never misspoken on the level of CALLING FOR SOMEONE'S DEATH ON NATIONAL TV. And then tried to lie about it. (And it wasn't as though he was speaking candidly in an interview or something and was driven to stumble over his words - he was speaking on his own planned show!) I do not condemn him but I do condemn his words and his actions surrounding those words. And I think he should step down, before he does more damage.

There is more of that exact sin. "I HAVE NEVER MISSPOKEN" sounds a lot like "AT LEAST I AM NOT AS BAD AS THAT ONE OVER THERE" or in the pages of the Bible, the pharisee who thanked God he was not like the sinners, gentiles, or women but then nearby a sinner could not even look up and begged mercy for his own wretched sins.

Again, who was it that went home justified that day according to the Bible???

 

[Eldy]

I have said things in passing that I wished I could take back, but I have never given a well thought out speech that I wish I could take back. Mostly because sometime during the planning I realized it was a bad idea.

Like I said before, he didn't try to take it back or say it was a mistake, he tried to say that he never said it at all.

Hey, more of that comparative wrong.

 

[Eldy]

Seriously. Along with the Protestant remark, what is with the whole "Don't trash Robertson in front of the Pagans" thing? Why are Christians to keep quiet when one of their 'leaders' makes a distasteful and stupid remark?

What Robertson said was wrong. If Christians just sweep it under the rug and don't call him on that, how do you think that looks to Non-Christians? It makes a mockery of your whole belief, it is as if you need to put up a front to make Christianity credible, and to hide what your members really stand for.

I suppose either way this incident is played it will help hasten Fundamentalist Christianity's inevitable decline in America. No offense, but the end of people who think like Robertson could not come a day too soon.

Also, I am not Pagan, I am a Deist.

We should not handle our business in front of you and other unbelievers. It is none of your business. We are the Body of Christ and darkness and light cannot co-mingle. We have mandates on how to deal with wrongs. From what I can see, this man has repented and we have no right to dredge his sin up again and again. And we certainly do not have the right to do any of it in front of the world. He is part of the Bride of Christ and I would hate to be found against that which the Lord of ALL loves.

 

[gaijin178]

Ah, that old sin of comparative wrong. As long as you perceive yourself to be less of a sinner then Pat, you can pump yourself up as better then him. A ploy of the enemy as old as creation.

No, I was trying to use somewhat neutral terms as well as applying to Christianity. I do not believe in sin and don't try to pump myself up as better than anyone. You ignored the rest of what I posted.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Please explain.

Err... what is there to explain?
There is the world and there is Christian faith.
The world holds no rule over Christians other than what has been allowed and the Christian believer is subject and responsible to the Body as a member of the Body.

I don't see many exalting the misplaced commentary of Mr. Robertson and denouncing of what was said has been done all around. The rattling of the saber from the world to do more than what has already been done or to paint it as if it were equal to a strawman is not impressive to me and as such is disregarded as trying to be divisive beyond what is called for.

What? Do you think Mr. Robertson is beyond Grace that is for all simply because of some callous words? No, we shall see how things proceed from here.

 

[Vastavus]

Hey, more of that comparative wrong.

I don't think they are saying "AT LEAST I AM NOT AS BAD AS THAT ONE OVER THERE" as you think.

What they are saying is more along the lines of "I am not perfect by any means, but I can still see how stupid and amoral of a comment that was."

Pat Robertson and his supporters should stand back and think about how they can say to their brothers: 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in their own.

 

[freewilly]

So now you are a prophet and can tell the thoughts of another mans heart? Who are you to say what this man thinks and what he is inside? If you have received Christ's forgiveness you have no right to turn around and act so condemningly. It is a terrible indictment when the Body of Christ acts like a troop of demons. Pandering to the world and in front of it is a shame.

I am not saying anything regarding what he thinks inside, not sure how you got that but I did see the broadcast Monday so I know what he did say and in the full context of how he said it. He did not make mistake and say it in anger or unthinkingly, it was calculated. He painted Chavez as X and advocated he be murdered for those reasons, there is no getting around that.

I am not condemning him as I said before I am however condemning his actions of that night and his subsequent lie to say he did not say assasinate. I believe in calling a spade a spade. To condemn him as you speak is to question his salvation, I am not doing that at all. Far be it from me to question anyone's salvation.