Is anyone else watching the Strange Fire conference with John MacArthur?

simonthezealot · Oct 21, 2013

Andrea411 said:
I don't think my worship is corrupt.... how dare you assume something so disgusting. The mainline churches are dead and dying, the charismatic church is in love with Jesus. All over the world the gospel is being spread, mostly charismatic missionaries, even the Baptists missionaries are charismatic bc their hearts are on fire.... its a shame that is so strange to most of our churches who wouldn't know how to lift their hands or shout His praises for fear their neighbors wouldn't approve..... and the truth is - their neighbors would not approve. Charismatics have been mocked and laughed at but yet we know what it is like to worship in Spirit and in truth.... you mock what you do not know. It is a sad day when worshipping Jesus Christ is considered strange fire....

1Cor 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

Neither did the Israelites think their worship was corrupt when they created the Golden Calf...But it went against what the Lord had warned.
The charismatic church has made a habit of worshiping in spirit but avoiding truth. We see NO examples of people worshiping in the manner we see in the charismatic church anywhere in scripture, hence a corrupt form of worship...
falling over, giggling,gibberish none of this is anywhere in scripture...

simonthezealot · Oct 21, 2013

It displeases God to make a mockery out of the Holy Spirit.

yeshuasavedme · Oct 21, 2013

simonthezealot said:
...
The charismatic church has made a habit of worshiping in spirit but avoiding truth

The golden calf reference has no relation to the baptism of the Holy Spirit and power which Jesus promised to those who ask for it.

the attack that "charismatic churches avoid truth" is a lie in itself, by making a general attack that is easily turned back on the poster who does not believe nor practice what the early Church believed and practiced and demonstrated.

Demons manifest in the presence of the Anointing of Christ in His servants, just like they did whenever Jesus came near. That is prophesied in Psalm 18: 44,45 when the sons of the aliens [ ben nekar =demons, disembodied spirits of the fallen watchers/ sons of God and daughters of Adam] fear and tremble and come out of their strongholds/fortresses, in the presence of the Anointed One/Christ.

That is seen in the NT, and Jesus' servants, anointed with the Power of the Holy Ghost, cause the same manifestations of demons when they come near the anointed servant of Christ, in Church, esp, and sometimes out of Church.

And no one could stand in the dedication of the temple of Solomon, when the presence of the Glory of YHWH entered the temple. They fell down!

In this Church age, we have the presence of the Glory of YHWH entering into the temple -His servants individually and collectively gathered to worship -and who can stand?
Dead churches have no presence of the Glory of God, and if their Church began in a great move of God and is now dead, then the Glory has departed just as He did in Ezekiel chapter 10, from the earthly temple.

Demons are very comfortable in their hidey holes among the dead, who profess to know God but who deny His power, and evil spirits see no reason to expose themselves in the midst of the dead churches -cause there is no anointing to cast them out.
Because of that, many people are bound by many evil spirits that they could be set free from, if only the Holy Ghost was asked for, as Jesus said, and only if they would receive His gifts which He sets in the Church for all the Church age, and which Paul showed us about, in Corinthians:

1Cr 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

1 Corinthians 12

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Andrea411 · Oct 21, 2013

blankCrossfire said:
Words have meanings.
If you're going to use words and not only take them out of context but use them in a way in which they are not supposed to (referring to God's fire as 'strange') I would encourage you not to use them at all.
You will misinterpret a lot of the bible if you continue to do this.

2 Peter 3:15-16
as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

.....................
I didn't I was speaking to another poster and advising them not to do that... using the word strange is not necessarily bad and your protesting about it is just a futile attempt to put all charismatics into a bad light... its ugly. I have been a charismatic for 25 years.... never see much of what they are objecting to unless its on You Tube....
I think what J.M. is doing is exactly what Paul was talking about - twisting the scriptures till he gets what he wants

Fireinfolding · Oct 21, 2013

Andrea411 said:
.....................
I didn't I was speaking to another poster and advising them not to do that... using the word strange is not necessarily bad and your protesting about it is just a futile attempt to put all charismatics into a bad light... its ugly. I have been a charismatic for 25 years.... never see much of what they are objecting to unless its on You Tube....
I think what J.M. is doing is exactly what Paul was talking about - twisting the scriptures till he gets what he wants

Your advising didnt even make sense to me, and neither did I say using the word strange is bad, nice try though

Andrea411 · Oct 21, 2013

simonthezealot said:
Neither did the Israelites think their worship was corrupt when they created the Golden Calf...But it went against what the Lord had warned.
The charismatic church has made a habit of worshiping in spirit but avoiding truth. We see NO examples of people worshiping in the manner we see in the charismatic church anywhere in scripture, hence a corrupt form of worship...
falling over, giggling,gibberish none of this is anywhere in scripture...

You don't know anything about me but are willing to call what I offer to my Lord and Savior 'corrupt'. That is just a terrible offensive and ugly thing to say. Your gibberish is called 'tongues' and the apostle Paul encouraged it and said not to forbid it.... so the corruption of the word comes from cessationists. It is also demeaning to the Holy Spirit and the gifts He gives.
I choose not to make it an issue bc all people should be fully persuaded in their own consciences... I feel for people with poor teaching who think if they pray in tongues it could be the devil.... that is truly corruption of His word and His power.
Plus have you not heard "the joy of the Lord is our strength'.. so if these people fall down in joy, I have no problem with that.... not something i have experienced but I have good friends who have and it did wonders for them. Apparently its very healing?? "who knew". I don't argue with more reverent churches who avoid the joy part of worship - that has its place too. Charismatic tend to have both types of worship.
Anti-charismatics in trying to make an argument against the gifts walk very close to offending the Lord.... and your ugliness toward me and others is also offensive to the Lord. IF you want to share a teaching, I listen otherwise leave me be, I am always hurt by you people who try to pretend your righteousness somehow allows you to be mean. If you can not be kind leave me be...

simonthezealot · Oct 21, 2013

Having joy in worship does not require acting idiotically(giggling, falling down, babbling without interpretation)
We see no examples of that in scripture, God is a God of order.

simonthezealot · Oct 21, 2013

Hebrews 10:29 (ESV)
29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?

simonthezealot · Oct 21, 2013

Let me ask the charismatics here, do you think the Holy Spirit the one whom creates life, and conforms sinners to Christ is dependent on your words?

simonthezealot · Oct 21, 2013

Andrea411 said:
Anti-charismatics in trying to make an argument against the gifts walk very close to offending the Lord.... and your ugliness toward me and others is also offensive to the Lord. IF you want to share a teaching, I listen otherwise leave me be, I am always hurt by you people who try to pretend your righteousness somehow allows you to be mean. If you can not be kind leave me be...

A plead to the emotions rather than a quest for truth, once you stop wih the emotion laden defense let's talk scripture.

rockytopva · Oct 21, 2013

Saint Augustine once said that, "Mans extremity is Gods opportunity." As far as I am concerned mans extremity is Gods big headache. People all through the ages got carried away with things. In which, the Sardiseans got carried away with their doctrine, trying to manipulate the Lambs book of Life for example.

As I believe this the Laodicean age, so the independent churches can get carried away with things. Materialism and wild fire can be a problem in our age.

HisSparkPlug · Oct 21, 2013

Fireinfolding said:
I dont see how God referred to his fire as that which was strange when it apparently didnt glorify him or present Him as holy.

The doctrine of Christ isnt called strange, there was also that which was called "strange doctrines"

And that which preferreth strangers to their own husband, or strange wives (which led Solomons heart astray).

Strange puts a difference between (in a negative sense) not positive. Except when others think it strange that we dont run into the same excess as them.

I read FireInFolding's remarks above as being FOR the Charismatic, not against.
Was there a miscommunication? ... or, did I read it wrong?

childofdust · Oct 21, 2013

digabeatle said:
they are streaming it live on the grace to you website and its extraordinary I am only sorry my family members are not open minded enough to listen and hear the problems with tongues and healing and prophecy.

hope someone here will enjoy this and share it with perhaps the correct forum if this is not it

I went to J. MacArthur's megachurch a couple times while I lived about a five minute drive away. I wasn't impressed by the man or his teaching. The first sermon of his I attended, he made the statement that there is no Hebrew word for "cloud," which is patently false as any first-year student of Biblical Hebrew can tell you. If the man doesn't know the most basic Hebrew there is, he shouldn't be teaching anybody anything about the Hebrew scriptures.

Fireinfolding · Oct 21, 2013

HisSparkPlug said:
I read FireInFolding's remarks above as being FOR the Charismatic, not against.
Was there a miscommunication? ... or, did I read it wrong?

I didnt mean anything either for or against whatever is called a charismatic.

Frogster · Oct 21, 2013

the charismatic definition, has been established already, we believe that the Holy Spirit has free will, and has not been neutered.

HisSparkPlug · Oct 21, 2013

simonthezealot said:
Neither did the Israelites think their worship was corrupt when they created the Golden Calf...But it went against what the Lord had warned.
The charismatic church has made a habit of worshiping in spirit but avoiding truth. We see NO examples of people worshiping in the manner we see in the charismatic church anywhere in scripture, hence a corrupt form of worship...
falling over, giggling,gibberish none of this is anywhere in scripture...

This comparison to the golden calf makes no sense. They worshipped an idol.
WHY did they worship an idol? = Because they felt abandoned and scared.
Charismatics do not feel abandoned & scared, but just the opposite. We know God is with us and believe the entire bible. Charismatics typically don't reject portions of the bible just because they make us "uncomfortable".

Let's now take look now at the truth of the Israelites and let's see how angry God got with them because they REJECTED His full character & personality:

“And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that were in the camp trembled... And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.” Exodus 19:16, 20:18

Israel withdrew from the manifest presence of the Lord. When they began to tremble in the intense manifest presence of the Lord, they backed up and rejected this manifestation of the supernatural power of God.

In effect, they said, “Moses, we do not want all this shaking, visible glory, and trumpets (prophetic voices). Moses, you go into the Lord’s presence and then come back and tell us what He said. We want a nice quiet dignified service.”

The manifest power of God will greatly affect our emotions. Our responses will be varied, as we differ greatly in our make up. In our day and time, many criticize these “manifestations” (our responses, or reactions to His manifest presence) in the places where the Lord is testing us to see if we are ready and willing to respond to all that He desires to do and accomplish.

“The recipients of each visitation will become the persecutors of the next visitation.” The Lord may not repeat Himself, and because He moves in ways that are embarrassing to our intellect, many will react and reject

With the real, there is always the counterfeit. But we must be careful that we do not throw the baby out with the bath water. Today, the world is either ignoring or laughing at the Church, but this is about to change.

We are living in the time of the closing out of the Church Age in which Jesus is beginning to take His place as the manifest head of His body, the Church. The entire world will see this “corporate Jesus” and they will react, just as they did in the time of Moses, when the Lord attempted to reveal Himself to Israel, and also, when Jesus walked among the people of His day.

This tells us that we must be “made ready” for this coming time of visitation. If we are not rightly responding to the process of our being “conditioned” to abide in this powerful manifestation of the presence of the Lord, we also will react and protest, as Israel did. The Lord can wait for another generation, but we cannot.

We are at the end of the Church age, and we are approaching the time of Revelation chapter four. It is very important that we have been prepared through the present manifestations of His presence, and have developed a sensitivity to the voice of the Lord

“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show you things which must be hereafter.” Revelation 4:1

Because Israel withdrew from the manifest presence of the Lord, He withdrew from them. Now, the same promise – the sound of a trumpet, saying, “Come up hither,” is being offered to us in our day.

There is a “present” call to come higher, as the Lord is doing things in ways that have never happened before. There are those who will say, as Mary of old when she was asked to give birth to Jesus, “It is impossible, and I do not understand, but be it unto me according to Your word.”

“And they sang a new song, saying… You have made us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.” Revelation 5:9-10

In the Lord’s time, He will say to these, “Come up.” The Head and the Body will come together and the resurrected glory of the Lord will be seen. As the Body functions in authority under the direct dictate of the Head, the nations will no longer laugh, but rather, they will tremble before them.

May we be found among those who, in this present time, will both welcome and respond
to the manifest presence of the Lord

And on that note... *Zzzooooooomm!

(The above article by Wade Taylor)

Frogster · Oct 21, 2013

simonthezealot said:
The golden calf example given in the 1st session is an excellent example of why the charismatic church is off course, in that they use a false representation of the true God.
Or rather worshiping the true God in a false form.
The bible is ripe with examples of how terrible corrupt worship is in the eyes of the Lord.

yet Paul took the galatians back to their charismatic experience, in gal 3:5, to validate their conversion time, as well as their ongoing experience, with miracles. Why?

Frogster · Oct 21, 2013

HisSparkPlug said:
HAHAHAA!
I'd rather stick needles in my eyeballs.
I read someone else had an adverse affect to the look of MacArthur.. I took a look at the man and all I saw was hardness

Frogster · Oct 21, 2013

Messy said:
But saying everything in charismatic services is evil is just as not discerning as charismatics who believe everything is from God and the first is worse. MacArthur and other heresy hunters also say real fire is from the devil, that's what the Pharisees said too.

Frogster · Oct 21, 2013

squint said:
Any assembly that believes and practices lies is not of God. I don't care how much 'spiritual activity' they learn to act out.

Does God still take His Advantages over such matters? Sure. Doesn't change what it is.

Fact is that matter is much closer to home than any assembly will ever care to deal with anyway, so what's the point of blaming the other believers? There is no point.

God has in fact promised to keep the evil in mankinds hearts divided, confused and scattered, and He is quite effectively active in that pursuit on many levels.

s

do you think we are in the blessing of Abraham still, the receiving of the Spirit, Gal 3:14?

i hope you do, so please tell me how we extract the gifts, those of Gal 3:5, from that blessing? Do bear in mind, in Acts 3, not long after Pentecost, Peter brought up Abraham...see the connection with Paul's usage also?

give text, not personal opinion.

Is anyone else watching the Strange Fire conference with John MacArthur?

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

Love to pray! :)

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Galatians is the best!

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Galatians is the best!

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