is anger ever a useful emotion?

[nb_christseeker]

The bible talks about anger as being as bad as murder. Others think its ok to get angry. We all know that anger is not a pleasant emotion, yet it often seems unavoidable. When is it OK to get angry, how do you (personally) know when to stop being angry, and how do you overcome anger? Does the person you're angry at need to be aware that they've made you angry for you to stop being angry, or can you forgive them and let go of the grudge without their knowledge of their offense? Is anything worth killing someone over? What about venting anger to or AT others, is this useful, ok to do, or just mean-spirited gossip? maybe describe a time you've been angry and how you got over it. or talk about something you are angry about and haven't gotten over, and what it would take for you to get over that anger.

Peace in Christ,
nb

 

[transientlife]

The bible talks about anger as being as bad as murder. Others think its ok to get angry. We all know that anger is not a pleasant emotion, yet it often seems unavoidable.

I think it's ok to recognize and acknowledge your anger...to act on it though, I don't think so. Most times when you are truly angry, it can cloud your judgement.

When is it OK to get angry, how do you (personally) know when to stop being angry, and how do you overcome anger?

I don't know when it is "ok" to get angry. I don't get "angry" very often. I get irritated a lot, but not full out angry. The last time I did get angry- I nearly lept over a counter and broke my ex-stepfather's nose (he'd threatened to kill my mother).

Does the person you're angry at need to be aware that they've made you angry for you to stop being angry, or can you forgive them and let go of the grudge without their knowledge of their offense?

Hm, I would say it would depend on the circumstance. But I don't think it's necessary to always let them in on it.

Is anything worth killing someone over?

Never.

What about venting anger to or AT others, is this useful, ok to do, or just mean-spirited gossip?

I would say it's not ok if you don't do it in a constructive way, but just maliciously.

maybe describe a time you've been angry and how you got over it. or talk about something you are angry about and haven't gotten over, and what it would take for you to get over that anger.

Whenever I'm angry or irritated, I usually separate myself from everyone else and just deal with it alone, think it out, write it out. Depends.

 

[nb_christseeker]

are you of the opinion that anger is murder?

 

[Wolverine502]

Anger is never a good thing. Holding anger inside and not resolving the issues weakens your soul.

 

[praying]

The bible talks about anger as being as bad as murder. Others think its ok to get angry. We all know that anger is not a pleasant emotion, yet it often seems unavoidable.

Anger can be a perfectly normal emotion/reaction to things, it is how you deal with your anger that makes it unhealthy.

When is it OK to get angry,

There is no set answer for this, it depends on the person, the situation and what you are getting angry over. Some things IMHO definitely do not warrant getting angry over.

how do you (personally) know when to stop being angry, and how do you overcome anger?

I know when it is time becuase the anger is just making me uncomfortable/miserable and is no longer productive.

Does the person you're angry at need to be aware that they've made you angry for you to stop being angry, or can you forgive them and let go of the grudge without their knowledge of their offense?

I think this all depends on why you are angry. Certainly there are valid reasons for becoming angry a spouse lies to you, a friend lets you down and so. If the reason is valid I think it behooves the you and for the betterment of the relationship to let the person know you are angry over X. This allows for your forgiveness and their ability to recognize behavior in them that cuases problems in their relationship with you.

Is anything worth killing someone over?

No, not out of anger there is not.

What about venting anger to or AT others, is this useful, ok to do, or just mean-spirited gossip?

Venting can be good, but it can't be destructive or mean.

maybe describe a time you've been angry and how you got over it. or talk about something you are angry about and haven't gotten over, and what it would take for you to get over that anger.

Peace in Christ,
nb

Now I have said all of these things, and know them intellectually but have I lived up to them everytime I was angry not by a long shot, but I do try.

 

[praying]

Anger is never a good thing. Holding anger inside and not resolving the issues weakens your soul.

I have a hard time reconciling this post with other posts you have made. in other threads.

 

[Wolverine502]

I have a hard time reconciling this post with other posts you have made. in other threads.

It is very simple mhatten; when I was posting in other threads I was not angry. I don't often get angry.

 

[ThinkerThinker]

Anger is not the issue at all. Anger is merely a reaction and how you react on that anger is an indication of your level of self control.

The real question is why do you become so angry? In this context anger is a good thing because it pops up a little flag every time something touches this problem inside of you. If you have any desire to improve yourself you will try to find out what this trigger is. It is probably a different in each person but there are some obvious ones such as fear of rejection. People do things and the indirect interpretation (which might not wrong) of their actions tells you they reject who or what your are, and because you are insecure or sub-consciously fearful, you get angry as a means to handle the rejection. It comes in simple format: someone pushes in front of you in the cue and you feel angry about it. Why? Because they reject you as an equal, as someone who has the right to be respected, they reject you as someone that will stand up to your rights saying your are a weak person (re-affirming your insecurity) and so on.


I am a determinist. Everything happens the way it should so I don't get angry about anything (except on occasion when I forget that I am an determinist ) If someone does something I don’t agree with I decide if I want to do something about it or not. If the answer is no I accept what is done (not necessarily approve of it but I have no emotional feeling about it). If I decided to do something I decide what it is and do it, again, not because I feel angry but because I want to change the causal chain that has occurred. That’s just me and it work for me. Others might find it more effective to imitate what they think Jesus might have done in such a situation or something like that. We each have to find our own method in dealing with emotions such as anger.

 

[The Midge]

The bible talks about anger as being as bad as murder. Others think its ok to get angry. We all know that anger is not a pleasant emotion, yet it often seems unavoidable. When is it OK to get angry, how do you (personally) know when to stop being angry, and how do you overcome anger? Does the person you're angry at need to be aware that they've made you angry for you to stop being angry, or can you forgive them and let go of the grudge without their knowledge of their offense? Is anything worth killing someone over? What about venting anger to or AT others, is this useful, ok to do, or just mean-spirited gossip? maybe describe a time you've been angry and how you got over it. or talk about something you are angry about and haven't gotten over, and what it would take for you to get over that anger.

Peace in Christ,
nb

This is the actual passage i think you are refering to:

Mt 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ Mt 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. Mt 5:23 "Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, Mt 5:24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift.
Mt 5:25 "Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. Mt 5:26 I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

The important points about his teaching is that murder requires an attitude of anger that leads upto it. That is wrong- the anger that we let burn out of control so that we start to wish harm on another. It is Ok to be angry about evil and injustice if it is creative and leads to possitive action.

We ned to deal with our anger towards our fellows before we approach God. We can not please God with our offerings and prayers- He who we cannot see- unless our attitude to our fellow, who we can see, is right. Usually our anger is about some wrong that is done to us. Yet for God to forgive us we have to forgive those who wronged us and return the favour. See Matthew 6, the Lords prayer and the explanation of how we are forgiven when we ask it.
Sorting an issue out is creative use of anger- revenge or cursing (Raca, IIRC was one of the most offensive curse words you could use in Jesus time!), is destructive anger. This is partly because we fail to see the same faults within ourselves. If you don't reconcile, that is make up we get judged by the measure we condemn or judge our enemy by God, if we do make up then it is forgiveness in action.

 

[Jedi christian]

Personally, I think anger can be good, if it works good for the kingdom of God. For example, christ once got very angry with the people in the temple for selling things in God's house. However, anger at your fellow person is not right. I do agree that you should do something to vent out your anger, and try to control it and not let it get out of hand.

 

[nb_christseeker]

hey these are really insightful... post on peoplez. i'll probly end up chiming in tonight. i've got an interview at 4:15p so in case that goes horrible, these can likely come in handy.

in a way too, i think Jesus was kind of a determinist, he kinda took the moments as they came, denied himself and whatever anger he might have expereinced, bore his cross and became humble, and trusted the outcome to his Father, or "followed" his Father. in the temple, we see him in these passsages:

Mat 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Mat 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mat 21:14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.

and

Luk 19:45 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
Luk 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Luk 19:47 And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,

and

Mar 11:15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
Mar 11:16 And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
Mar 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mar 11:18 And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.
Mar 11:19 And when even was come, he went out of the city.

now, another question we might ask is: what is the trigger that makes Jesus angry, how does he deal with that anger, is it anger at all or is it some other emotion, and... other questions that relate to this. i find it interesting that some people think that he cracked the whip and beat people in the temple but i never see that happening in scripture. also, does this all relate back to Jesus saying that he never does or says anything out of his own self, but only does and says what the Father gives him to do or say?

peace in Christ,
nb

 

[TrueQ]

Anger can do wonderful things for you, when you aren't sure how you feel about something, a little burst of anger can show you what's in your heart. If you are having trouble with someone's behavior showing how angry you really are about can hurry them along to resolving the issue.

Of course, as with all passions, anger can make things worse as well, let it stew inside you for a while and it'll be all the more violent and destructive once it is released. But that can be said of all passions.

I don't believe anger and murder are one and the same, sure to much pent up rage can lead to murder, but so long as one vents it every so often it shouldn't. And there are, sadly, many people in this world who can kill without having to be angry at their victims.

 

[call-me-dan]

hey these are really insightful... post on peoplez. i'll probly end up chiming in tonight. i've got an interview at 4:15p so in case that goes horrible, these can likely come in handy.

in a way too, i think Jesus was kind of a determinist, he kinda took the moments as they came, denied himself and whatever anger he might have expereinced, bore his cross and became humble, and trusted the outcome to his Father, or "followed" his Father. in the temple, we see him in these passsages:

Mat 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Mat 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mat 21:14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.

and

Luk 19:45 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
Luk 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Luk 19:47 And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,

and

Mar 11:15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
Mar 11:16 And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
Mar 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mar 11:18 And the scribes and chief priests heard it, and sought how they might destroy him: for they feared him, because all the people was astonished at his doctrine.
Mar 11:19 And when even was come, he went out of the city.

now, another question we might ask is: what is the trigger that makes Jesus angry, how does he deal with that anger, is it anger at all or is it some other emotion, and... other questions that relate to this. i find it interesting that some people think that he cracked the whip and beat people in the temple but i never see that happening in scripture. also, does this all relate back to Jesus saying that he never does or says anything out of his own self, but only does and says what the Father gives him to do or say?

peace in Christ,
nb

well said, you beat me to the punch!

Anger is natural and normal, its a part of life. It can be very usefull, but it can also be dangerous. If you find yourself thinking about how you are going to make your anger usefull, you may already be to the point where you need to sit down for a moment and take a breather.

Notice how Jesus vented inmmediatly, not holding on to his emotions but showing people how he felt, and how strongly he felt about it. Also note how many people he angered, and that he was forced to leave the place to continue his ministry, and consider this before venting like he did.

†
pura vida
dan

 

[Jedi christian]

I completely agree with dan.

 

[ThinkerThinker]

Mar 11:15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;

now, another question we might ask is: what is the trigger that makes Jesus angry, ...

If Jesus truly became angry then it showed his humanness, not his godliness, which is fair enough, but we have to accept then that Jesus also sometimes slipped up.



Don't get me wrong, I am not saying anger is bad, just that if you truly understand human nature and your prime motivator is unconditional love then you cannot get angry - it would just not make sense.



That moneychanger needed love and guidance, he needed to be shown why his actions were wrong and given the opportunity to make a living in some other, non-offending way, not to be kicked out like a dog. Let's say that moneychanger was my son; I would not be impressed by Jesus' rudeness toward my son, even if what he did was wrong. I would have much more preferred Jesus go to him and have a persuasive talk with him (which I'm sure Jesus was very capable of). I love my moneychanger son and expect God to be capable of loving him even more and because I love him I treat him with respect as I expect God to do. And if he goes wrong I don't get angry and start kicking things. I try my best to talk to him, to show him the correct path, and then I am patient till he sees the light (I don't really have a son but you get the idea, I hope )

The only reason I can find (if you don't want to think Jesus slipped up there) is that he did not feel angry but knew that the expression of anger would have the best effect in those circumstances.

 

[repentandbelieve]

There are many, many instances in the bible where God anger is arroused, so I don't see anger as being sinful. When i get angry I get very determined to do something about whatever it is that made me angry. Anger leads to action. That can be either a good thing or a bad thing.
One demonination i know of list anger as one of their 7 deadly sins. But IMO, anger is neither good nor bad.

 

[nb_christseeker]

That moneychanger needed love and guidance, he needed to be shown why his actions were wrong and given the opportunity to make a living in some other, non-offending way, not to be kicked out like a dog. Let's say that moneychanger was my son; I would not be impressed by Jesus' rudeness toward my son, even if what he did was wrong. I would have much more preferred Jesus go to him and have a persuasive talk with him (which I'm sure Jesus was very capable of). I love my moneychanger son and expect God to be capable of loving him even more and because I love him I treat him with respect as I expect God to do. And if he goes wrong I don't get angry and start kicking things. I try my best to talk to him, to show him the correct path, and then I am patient till he sees the light

But apparently that isn't the true expression of the real God. We can sometimes make up gods in our own head and assume that the god we have in our head is the real God. But God has a personality distinctly his own, completely expressed in the person of Jesus, and told about in the bible. A god that we make up in our head that doesn't match up with Jesus and the bible is an idol.

Jesus wasn't the typical fluffy image that kids see in sunday school classes. If Jesus is God, which I believe He is, this is the same God that killed a guy for touching the ark of the covenant, the same God that ordered the slaughter of the false prophets of Baal, the same God that killed the firstborn of every Egyptian that didn't have the passover lamb blood on the doorjamb, the same God that will bring about the awful tribulation in the last days.

Oh yes, he is a merciful and understanding God, to those who love him and repent, evidenced by the atoning sacrifice of his only son Jesus. But these moneychangers took the house of God, a place symbolizing holiness, a place for worship and reverence, and turned it into a den of theives. So we can see that God gets mad when that which is intended for holy purposes becomes defiled. God hates evil:

Proverbs 6:16-19 "These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: {17} A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, {18} An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, {19} A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

 

[ThinkerThinker]

Jesus wasn't the typical fluffy image that kids see in sunday school classes. If Jesus is God, which I believe He is, this is the same God that killed a guy for touching the ark of the covenant, the same God that ordered the slaughter of the false prophets of Baal, the same God that killed the firstborn of every Egyptian that didn't have the passover lamb blood on the doorjamb, the same God that will bring about the awful tribulation in the last days.

Oh yes, he is a merciful and understanding God, to those who love him and repent, evidenced by the atoning sacrifice of his only son Jesus.

This God you describe sounds like something out a period long past. We have, in the mean time, become more civilized and I really hope that, if there is a God that he has kept up with the times. The God you describe there is one that needs to be followed in fear because he has a vicious nature. Actually, it’s more schizophrenic because he is this ruthless, murdering monster the one moment and then the next moment he is this love filled, gentle being. If this was really the nature of God I would have been paralyzed by fear of slipping up and this all powerful killer coming down on me.



I know what you are saying about us not forming God into what we want him to be but I think it is fair to say that, if he is to be acceptable to us, he has to fit the profile of what we see as civilized, good and wise. If he is a ruthless baby killer then how can anyone in today’s day and age accept him as God? You would not accept him if he was a pedophile would you? No, because you cannot reconcile that with being civilized, good and wise. Well, I cannot reconcile a murderer of innocent babies with that either. If God is this monster and we have to accept him as he is without trying to twist his evil character into what we would like him to be then I will, out of principle, happily go to hell.

 

[TheThirdLink]

This God you describe sounds like something out a period long past. We have, in the mean time, become more civilized and I really hope that, if there is a God that he has kept up with the times. The God you describe there is one that needs to be followed in fear because he has a vicious nature. Actually, it’s more schizophrenic because he is this ruthless, murdering monster the one moment and then the next moment he is this love filled, gentle being. If this was really the nature of God I would have been paralyzed by fear of slipping up and this all powerful killer coming down on me.



I know what you are saying about us not forming God into what we want him to be but I think it is fair to say that, if he is to be acceptable to us, he has to fit the profile of what we see as civilized, good and wise. If he is a ruthless baby killer then how can anyone in today’s day and age accept him as God? You would not accept him if he was a pedophile would you? No, because you cannot reconcile that with being civilized, good and wise. Well, I cannot reconcile a murderer of innocent babies with that either. If God is this monster and we have to accept him as he is without trying to twist his evil character into what we would like him to be then I will, out of principle, happily go to hell.

God does not bow His knee to you, if anything, flesh bows the knee to the spiritual. God is a Sovereign God. Do you think the ruler of the universe would really listen to what you had to say? That would be scary. Even in the old days kings beheaded their subjects for speaking to them with such an attitude. The servant is not greater than his lord. Don't think you are greater than God. It will never happen in an eternity's time. The difference is God is a merciful king. We're just flesh, my friend. And even our souls are pitiful compared to Him.

God judges sin, and since He is righteous, He always will. Jesus Christ, even though He came in the flesh, was sinless. If He wasn't sinless, then He couldn't have paid the penalty for our sins on the Cross, thus allowing passage into Heaven to all who believe in His name willingly:

Hebrews 9:14 - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


Sin is spiritual, not fleshly. Our souls are polluted with sin until we recieve Christ as Saviour. Since sin is in the soul, God will not allow it into Heaven, which is why people go to Hell when they die without Christ. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday, and forever. Thus He will not change to the ways of our society. We are a sinful society, He is perfect. If He changed to be sinful like us, it would mean our doom. He's the Lord anyway; we're not. What He says goes.

Anger is not always bad:

Ephesians 4:26 - Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

I believe that Jesus Christ, even in the flesh, was righteous because He was the Son of God (no one else was) and the Scripture says without spot, meaning sinless. Which is where the Biblical term "The One" comes from. Whatever He did in the Bible, anger or not, I am going to take as literal and perfect and I will learn from Him, for I am just one of His many servants.

Please continue. This discussion is very good.

 

[The Midge]

This God you describe sounds like something out a period long past. We have, in the mean time, become more civilized and I really hope that, if there is a God that he has kept up with the times. The God you describe there is one that needs to be followed in fear because he has a vicious nature. Actually, it’s more schizophrenic because he is this ruthless, murdering monster the one moment and then the next moment he is this love filled, gentle being. If this was really the nature of God I would have been paralyzed by fear of slipping up and this all powerful killer coming down on me.

I know what you are saying about us not forming God into what we want him to be but I think it is fair to say that, if he is to be acceptable to us, he has to fit the profile of what we see as civilized, good and wise. If he is a ruthless baby killer then how can anyone in today’s day and age accept him as God? You would not accept him if he was a pedophile would you? No, because you cannot reconcile that with being civilized, good and wise. Well, I cannot reconcile a murderer of innocent babies with that either. If God is this monster and we have to accept him as he is without trying to twist his evil character into what we would like him to be then I will, out of principle, happily go to hell.

I don't know if what you describe is very civilized or if it is I would doubt that civilization is worth while. Is nothing special or worthwhile enough for you to get emotional? Do you really mean that there is nothing that I could do to you or another that would not trigger an out rage to your sense of morality? Have you no passion?

All this reasonableness, and not being offensive is disengenous- I think what you are saying is that nothing is worthwhile. You need to get a sense of how outrageous the money changers were being. They were charging people to meet with God! Would you say that we should meter and charge for air by the cubic meter????