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Is an appeal to authority a proper justification of knowledge?

keith99

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It's unlikely that a patient would literally see 100 doctors. But let's say that my 3 year old son was "terminally" ill and we see 10 doctors. If 9 say that there's no chance of survival and 1 says that there's a chance, I'm going to put my money on the one. If one qualified authority believes it's possible for my son to survive then I'm going to pursue that path and fight for his life.

Would you not do the same?

Why would I blindly trust any of them?

Life and death I'm going to ask for an explaination. The one who just says 'trust me' can go to hell. The one who tells me his copper bracelets will cure my kid's cancer will have less than 10 seconds before I expidite his travel.

Appeal to authority is an excellent source of knowledge, as long as all the authority out ther is in agreement. If there is disagreement then it is time to make the various authorities wshow their work. And of course to let them dispute the reasoning of other authorities.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm confused. What's non-factual knowledge?

Opinion. For example...

Glenn Beck has a great deal of knowledge about politics/American history. I don't know if he holds any degrees in those topics, but he demonstrates his knowledge on his radio show. It's doubtless that a great many of his listeners would consider him an expert on the two topics that he discusses regularly. The problem, however, is that his job is to push a narrative based upon his opinions.... with a light sprinkling of fact that lends his opinions validity. He doesn't deal in facts....he deals (literally "sells) opinions to like-minded listeners.

The funny thing is that those who sell opinions seem to largely become wealthier than those who sell facts/truth.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Look up appeal to emotion. Or I can give you the definition (Wikipedia because I'm being lazy):



And think of the children is given as an example.



Appeal to emotion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is this thread intended to start an argument? I thought it was just a discussion regarding appeals to authority....

Speaking for myself, I'd work with the one Dr to try and save my son. That doesn't make it a logical choice...or even a smart one. As you said Hetta, it's an emotional decision.

This thread reminds me of Swift's "A Modest Proposal".
 
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seeingeyes

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Doesn't this describe the vast majority of what we consider to be knowledge? Is an appeal to authority like this a proper justification? In other words, just because I read this information on Wolfram Alpha, do I really know that the moon is 237,704 miles away from the earth?

Yes. Most of our knowledge is from outside authorities.

In terms of laying out an argument, though, there are three considerations.

One is whether or not the authority in question can be trusted by both parties (e.g. You may quote "phyzicsroxxors.com" to make a point, but if the source is deemed dubious by those you are talking to, then it will not be considered an authority in the context of a debate or conversation).

The other is whether the authority in question can rightly be deemed an authority on this topic (e.g. If you quote Bill Gates on ancient farming techniques, that might not go over well.).

And the third is the old "argument from authority" fallacy. Which basically says that just because someone is an expert on a certain topic, does not mean that they are always right on that particular topic. So simply saying, "Isaac Newton said that gravity pulls things towards earth" is not, in and of itself, evidence of anything. It's name dropping to sway an audience (whether the quote in question is backed up by evidence or not). This has it's role in rhetoric, but not logic.
 
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quatona

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Knowledge is generally understood to be justified, true, belief. We all hold all sorts of beliefs in our heads. Some constitute as knowledge and others do not. A belief constitutes knowledge if the belief is true and if we believe it for the right reason. So we need all three things for knowledge - belief, truth, and justification. Everything else I'm about to say depends on this, so if you take issue with the above then deal with it before moving on.

For instance, let's say that I believe that the population of Paris is 2.2 million (which it is). So my belief is true. But let's say that I believe this because of a dream that I had last night. A talking unicorn appeared to me and told me that this was so. Even though my belief is true, it does not constitute knowledge because I don't believe it for a good reason.

So knowledge is justified, true, belief.

We good with that?

Moving on...

There are all sorts of justifications for beliefs. We may believe something because of first hand experience. We may believe because of logical necessity. We could talk about many types of justification. Here's my question for this thread: is appeal to authority a valid justification for knowledge?

It seems to me that most often our justifications for our beliefs fall into this category - an appeal to authority. For instance, I believe that the moon is 237,704 miles away from the earth. I would say that this belief constitutes knowledge. We know this to be true. What's my justification? Well, I looked it up on Wolfram Alpha. So I appeal to authority. I haven't personally measured the distance, but I trust those who claim to have done the proper calculations.

Doesn't this describe the vast majority of what we consider to be knowledge? Is an appeal to authority like this a proper justification? In other words, just because I read this information on Wolfram Alpha, do I really know that the moon is 237,704 miles away from the earth?
I don´t know about you but where I come from people justify their belief in reliability of the dictionary or wikipedia by mere appeal to authority. They usually have reasons why they consider these sources reliable. It´s all a bit more complex than you make it out to be.
 
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Tree of Life

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I don´t know about you but where I come from people justify their belief in reliability of the dictionary or wikipedia by mere appeal to authority. They usually have reasons why they consider these sources reliable. It´s all a bit more complex than you make it out to be.

Once we've appealed to an authority we can go back and ask "is this person/source really authoritative?"

But my question here is: is an appeal to authority a proper justification for knowledge? If I read the information on Wolfram Alpha, can it be said that I "know"?
 
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variant

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Once we've appealed to an authority we can go back and ask "is this person/source really authoritative?"

But my question here is: is an appeal to authority a proper justification for knowledge? If I read the information on Wolfram Alpha, can it be said that I "know"?

As I said before, appeals to authority are only as good as your knowledge of how trustworthy the authority is to present information that they have knowledge of.

How authorities, or anyone comes to knowledge is of course by using their knowledge to make predictions that could be shown to have been incorrect.
 
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quatona

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Once we've appealed to an authority we can go back and ask "is this person/source really authoritative?"
No. I am not sure why you ask me this question. It´s not what I said or implied. Is it your position?

But my question here is: is an appeal to authority a proper justification for knowledge?
And my answer is no (given that this is all there is for a justification).
If I read the information on Wolfram Alpha, can it be said that I "know"?
You mean "because I read....?"? Then the answer is no.

Anyway, philosophically speaking the concept of knowledge (and particularly the defining question what is required for to constitute a conviction "knowledge") is very diverse. It starts from "strictly speaking, we can´t know anything" (which I think renders the term "knowledge" useless and makes any further considerations obsolete) and has very different versions of what is a justification for considering something known (or for acting as though it were known). The best we can strive for is a consistent use of the term (and there could be several different consistent ways of using this term).

However, unless we are determined to think and deal in absolutes (which I think ultimately will kick us in the butt), we will need to take into account the context, the subject, the situation, the purpose etc.

So e.g. when I get a letter from the Ministery for Traffic which tells me I have been speeding on...at...in and I get a fine of... there are (under strict application of the term "knowledge") huge problems to even justify that I "know" this letter is genuine, that comes from where it claims it comes, etc. Furthermore (even if I could verify this - and this would come with the acceptance of further sources, that I can´t know to be reliable), I still wouldn´t "know" whether the measuring method was reliable, whether the apparatus was working properly etc etc. So I could spend years upon years trying to 100% verify the whole thing, and I would still not be there.
Instead I could, for practical purposes, rely on information, sources, institutions, processes etc. that have proven highly reliable, and consider this sufficient justification to say "I know...". In most every instance humans use the word "(justification of) knowledge" (and I think the only exception is abstract epistemology, which does not necessarily help us with anything) as a substitute for "justification to act as though we know.". Simply because that´s the only workable method, in practice.

Now, asking a concrete, practical question, and then applying abstract (possibly absolutist) epistemological criteria in a very strict way means doing two different things as though they were the same.

Thus, if a certain source has proven reliable time and again (and we know that the precautions against itself relying on misinformation, etc etc. are granting a certain reliability), in our use of language we are justified to act as though we "know" and to say we "know".
Simply because the only viable alternative approach would be radical epistemological nihilims (i.e. a definition of "knowledge" that renders knowledge impossible and hence renders the word "knowledge" useless).

Of course, all this has very little to do with the "appeal to authority" fallacy, and I think you know this.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Is this thread intended to start an argument? I thought it was just a discussion regarding appeals to authority....
Speaking for myself, I'd work with the one Dr to try and save my son. That doesn't make it a logical choice...or even a smart one. As you said Hetta, it's an emotional decision.
This thread reminds me of Swift's "A Modest Proposal".

how come, in (for instance) africa in villages over one hundred miles from any medical facility, there's more "faith" healings every week
than there is
in the untied sates in cities where there's a docotor or 2 for every block
in several years?

real hard question. huh? eh? no. not really.

it doesn't take 'blind trust' to go to the doctor who offers hope of healing and testing what he says (test everything anyway - if people tested the "official" approach to trouble in the body, they would never go back to the "official" approach!-they just blindly allow the "official approach" to dictate what they do and the results even bad results and a lot(A LOT) of money.

just like people who trust what their priest or pastor says without testing - they haven't even read the Bible through in many cases,
to see what is true and what isn't.
so people trust what their "official" politically correct dokotor says
WITHOUT TESTING IT, without even getting a second opinion too many times.
and if they were able to JUST READ UP ON THE SUBJECT......
just read up on the subject.... themselves, instead of trusting the money maker,
just read up on the subject (prayerfully research it with hope and joy and TRUSTING WHO >>>> THE CREATOR !!! of course)
just read up on the subject ----
but 95% won't bother.
even if it makes the difference between life and death. between recovering and getting worse. between spending $12 to $3000 instead of spending over $30000......

just read up on the subject. that's all it takes much of the time.
or
if they know what the Bible says,(95% people don't have a clue)
it's even simpler ..... (but it won't be reprinted here - go read it through).
 
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Tree of Life

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As I said before, appeals to authority are only as good as your knowledge of how trustworthy the authority is to present information that they have knowledge of.

How authorities, or anyone comes to knowledge is of course by using their knowledge to make predictions that could be shown to have been incorrect.

So if I read on Wolfram Alpha that the moon is X miles away from the earth, and this information is correct, do I have knowledge?
 
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Tree of Life

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It starts from "strictly speaking, we can´t know anything" (which I think renders the term "knowledge" useless and makes any further considerations obsolete) and has very different versions of what is a justification for considering something known (or for acting as though it were known). The best we can strive for is a consistent use of the term (and there could be several different consistent ways of using this term).

This would be a radically skeptical or subjectivist take on knowledge. Probably the least popular epistemology out there. So this definitely doesn't describe the entire conversation.

Now, asking a concrete, practical question, and then applying abstract (possibly absolutist) epistemological criteria in a very strict way means doing two different things as though they were the same.

Thus, if a certain source has proven reliable time and again (and we know that the precautions against itself relying on misinformation, etc etc. are granting a certain reliability), in our use of language we are justified to act as though we "know" and to say we "know".
Simply because the only viable alternative approach would be radical epistemological nihilims (i.e. a definition of "knowledge" that renders knowledge impossible and hence renders the word "knowledge" useless.)

If your philosophical assumptions don't apply to real life why stick with your philosophical assumptions? Why not just go with something that we can more readily live with?
 
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Tree of Life

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If you check twice you'll notice the moon moves pretty fast.

Wolfram Alpha also lists it's source material.

Oh I get it now.

But, to be clear, it's not required that I double check these source materials or do any calculations myself? Simply because they're a reliable source I can have knowledge by trusting them?
 
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bhsmte

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Oh I get it now.

But, to be clear, it's not required that I double check these source materials or do any calculations myself? Simply because they're a reliable source I can have knowledge by trusting them?

I would think, one of the keys is; you can check the calculations and or learn how to objectively check the calculations, if you wanted to.
 
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variant

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Oh I get it now.

But, to be clear, it's not required that I double check these source materials or do any calculations myself? Simply because they're a reliable source I can have knowledge by trusting them?

Reliable means they make accurate predictions.

In terms of you just having a knowledge of a matter of fact I don't see a problem.

If you have to do something that requires you know where the moon is I would suggest double checking.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Oh I get it now.

But, to be clear, it's not required that I double check these source materials or do any calculations myself? Simply because they're a reliable source I can have knowledge by trusting them?

The point of double checking is to make sure the source is reliable
 
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