Is alcohol [and video games] really "evil"?

[Windmill]

Hey, long time no see for a bunch of you sda members

Anyway. Recently, I've been thinking about my video games habits. For several months, I have abstained from certain games, like pretty much all RPG's. Mainly games which involve killing other humans and that involve magic. Or, at the least, moderate + fantasy themes.

A certain fantasy I believe is okay. If adam and eve were in the garden of eden, and pretended to be sheep that could talk- I don't think God will call that evil. We've been gifted with an imagination, to use it to come up with ideas that arn't there. I don't think God would've said "BLASPHMEY! SHEEP DO NOT TALK! THATS EVIL!!!" And kicked them out. I'd have thought God would've been the type to possibly join in..

So, in that respect, games like mario (usually) seem fine to me. Sure, you may be jumping on turtles with human characteristics and be (in certain mario games) talking to mushrooms that can talk (and sometimes, fighting a dinosaur that can talk and breath fire to rescue the princess from its grasp) fine. Its pretend.

Infact, can someone quote me a verse which says things like, watching desperate housewives is evil and sinful? I personally cannot find a verse that calls it a sin.

Instead, I see verses which recommend you not to watch things like that. Desperate housewives has very heavy sexual themes. Being so heavy as they are, they easily infaltrate into your thinking. As such, abstaining from the show is something I nod to.

However, if someone were to watch it, well, unless under special circumstances, I don't believe the act of watching it is a sin (though I'm open to verses ocntrary to this)

Now, if we look at alcohol, I think I see the same thing here. Does anyone have a verse which actually says drinking alcohol is a sin? I can find verses like "wine is a mocker" and verses saying getting drunk is a sin... but not saying that sipping a glass of wine is a sin.

Instead, I see verses which recommend that you don't drink alcohol. I see it somewhat like this- theres a bit of alcohol in grape juice (its just in there) but not enough to really take effect. However, as theres quite a lot in say wine, its recommended by God you don't drink it, because it'll hook you in, and prepare you for the big sin, which is getting drunk. Now, you could not play it safe and drink wine without getting drunk, but you'd have to be extremely careful. Plus, its just not really good for your health.

So, I see video games the same. A bit of fantasy is fine- a bit more (say, the legend of zelda series) is starting to push it. You can play, its not sinful, but its just not recommended, because it'll lead you into deeper sin if you're not extremely careful.

The same somewhat applies to certain meat (eg, chicken). Its recommended you don't eat it by God, but not a sin if you do.

What are your thoughts everyone on this issue?

 

[Cliff2]

Hey, long time no see for a bunch of you sda members

Anyway. Recently, I've been thinking about my video games habits. For several months, I have abstained from certain games, like pretty much all RPG's. Mainly games which involve killing other humans and that involve magic. Or, at the least, moderate + fantasy themes.

A certain fantasy I believe is okay. If adam and eve were in the garden of eden, and pretended to be sheep that could talk- I don't think God will call that evil. We've been gifted with an imagination, to use it to come up with ideas that arn't there. I don't think God would've said "BLASPHMEY! SHEEP DO NOT TALK! THATS EVIL!!!" And kicked them out. I'd have thought God would've been the type to possibly join in..

So, in that respect, games like mario (usually) seem fine to me. Sure, you may be jumping on turtles with human characteristics and be (in certain mario games) talking to mushrooms that can talk (and sometimes, fighting a dinosaur that can talk and breath fire to rescue the princess from its grasp) fine. Its pretend.

Infact, can someone quote me a verse which says things like, watching desperate housewives is evil and sinful? I personally cannot find a verse that calls it a sin.

Instead, I see verses which recommend you not to watch things like that. Desperate housewives has very heavy sexual themes. Being so heavy as they are, they easily infaltrate into your thinking. As such, abstaining from the show is something I nod to.

However, if someone were to watch it, well, unless under special circumstances, I don't believe the act of watching it is a sin (though I'm open to verses ocntrary to this)

Now, if we look at alcohol, I think I see the same thing here. Does anyone have a verse which actually says drinking alcohol is a sin? I can find verses like "wine is a mocker" and verses saying getting drunk is a sin... but not saying that sipping a glass of wine is a sin.

Instead, I see verses which recommend that you don't drink alcohol. I see it somewhat like this- theres a bit of alcohol in grape juice (its just in there) but not enough to really take effect. However, as theres quite a lot in say wine, its recommended by God you don't drink it, because it'll hook you in, and prepare you for the big sin, which is getting drunk. Now, you could not play it safe and drink wine without getting drunk, but you'd have to be extremely careful. Plus, its just not really good for your health.

So, I see video games the same. A bit of fantasy is fine- a bit more (say, the legend of zelda series) is starting to push it. You can play, its not sinful, but its just not recommended, because it'll lead you into deeper sin if you're not extremely careful.

The same somewhat applies to certain meat (eg, chicken). Its recommended you don't eat it by God, but not a sin if you do.

What are your thoughts everyone on this issue?

As you can see I am not in the same age group that you come from and to a certain extent do not understand the games mentality that has gripped the youth of the world.

When I was growing up it was still about games but they were real not the video type that mnay play these days.

I do not think that video games in and of themselves are evil. Having said that there are some that would be.

I would stear clear of them for the reasons you have already mentioned.

As for alcohol it is dangerous in itself and even in small amounts I would not suggest that anyone use it.

It is true that the Bible seems to give a mixed take on it but I think you will find that wine in the Bible is often refered to both alocholic and non-alcoholic. You have to use some wisdom to see what one is being used.

My advice is do not touch it in any way shape or form.

Anyway, how is Kiwi land these days?

 

[smooze]

To establish which meats are wrong to eat consult Leviticus. SDA follow the food laws there. It never says not to eat meat. Not to eat Camel , rock badger ( yuck) fish with no scales ( shelllfish mainly) I love shellfish but alas it is wrong. So video games would be like being in the world and not Of the world keeping our minds focused on GOD. I think it boils to
John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

 

[smooze]

Do Not Love the World

15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.17The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

 

[woobadooba]

Hey, long time no see for a bunch of you sda members

Anyway. Recently, I've been thinking about my video games habits. For several months, I have abstained from certain games, like pretty much all RPG's. Mainly games which involve killing other humans and that involve magic. Or, at the least, moderate + fantasy themes.

A certain fantasy I believe is okay. If adam and eve were in the garden of eden, and pretended to be sheep that could talk- I don't think God will call that evil. We've been gifted with an imagination, to use it to come up with ideas that arn't there. I don't think God would've said "BLASPHMEY! SHEEP DO NOT TALK! THATS EVIL!!!" And kicked them out. I'd have thought God would've been the type to possibly join in..

So, in that respect, games like mario (usually) seem fine to me. Sure, you may be jumping on turtles with human characteristics and be (in certain mario games) talking to mushrooms that can talk (and sometimes, fighting a dinosaur that can talk and breath fire to rescue the princess from its grasp) fine. Its pretend.

Infact, can someone quote me a verse which says things like, watching desperate housewives is evil and sinful? I personally cannot find a verse that calls it a sin.

Instead, I see verses which recommend you not to watch things like that. Desperate housewives has very heavy sexual themes. Being so heavy as they are, they easily infaltrate into your thinking. As such, abstaining from the show is something I nod to.

However, if someone were to watch it, well, unless under special circumstances, I don't believe the act of watching it is a sin (though I'm open to verses ocntrary to this)

Now, if we look at alcohol, I think I see the same thing here. Does anyone have a verse which actually says drinking alcohol is a sin? I can find verses like "wine is a mocker" and verses saying getting drunk is a sin... but not saying that sipping a glass of wine is a sin.

Instead, I see verses which recommend that you don't drink alcohol. I see it somewhat like this- theres a bit of alcohol in grape juice (its just in there) but not enough to really take effect. However, as theres quite a lot in say wine, its recommended by God you don't drink it, because it'll hook you in, and prepare you for the big sin, which is getting drunk. Now, you could not play it safe and drink wine without getting drunk, but you'd have to be extremely careful. Plus, its just not really good for your health.

So, I see video games the same. A bit of fantasy is fine- a bit more (say, the legend of zelda series) is starting to push it. You can play, its not sinful, but its just not recommended, because it'll lead you into deeper sin if you're not extremely careful.

The same somewhat applies to certain meat (eg, chicken). Its recommended you don't eat it by God, but not a sin if you do.

What are your thoughts everyone on this issue?

It's simple...

Whatever we can do to the glory of God is what ought to be done; but if we can't do what we would like to do to the glory of God, then it is something that we ought to avoid doing.

It's quite sad that the youth of today of come to the conclusion that you can't have fun in Christ, but that you must step outside of God in order to enjoy such moments.

Truth is, God doesn't merely call us to servitude of spirit, but to enjoy His presence. When the youth of today come to realise this they will spend less time engaging in worldly activities, and more time in seeking to do those things that are approved by God, and with enjoyment nonetheless. By the way, this goes for adults too.

 

[Windmill]

Indeed.

But still- my entire post is my feelings on how to figure out and help judge what God ordains or not. What he considers acceptable, or not.

Yes- we live in the world- but just because someone in the world created video games, I do not believe that that suddenly means they're off limits. Cliff, I understand, video games have changed. As technology has increased, their power to immerse you has increased. Greater graphics, greater music, "greater" storyline. All of this helps to create emotion.

I myself am a nintendo fan. Nintendo is fun and simple- they make clean games. At the same time, while they make clean games with minimal fantasy (ie mario) they also create games which have a lot of fantasy (Zelda) I myself used to love zelda to bits and was one of these insane nintendo fans. You know? I'd be ditching school to go to the online "camp hyrule." Well, actually, I was sick at the time, but I still would've found school bearable, though it wouldn't have been nice.

Zelda has quite an immersive world. Because of the way its set up, its set up soley to hook you into the world of hyrule. You know, its not just even killing monsters, "redeads" or talking to mythical creatures. In one of the games, they go so far as to make you "pray to the Gods to regenerate the master sword" I was like no. It took me a couple of years after that to give zelda up but now I have *nods*

That? Its just dangerous. The video games I play now, I work hard to make sure they arn't ones that I can become immersed in like that. Games like mario, its not the feeling of the game but the gameplay that makes mario so great. The storys are usually sub-par, its running around on obstacle courses testing your reflexes that makes the game so great. No one remembers mario for the storyline.

So, the gameplays fun, but the game isn't immersive. Currently, this is the type of game I'm looking towards.

On the subject of alcohol- I do understand it sometimes referres to new wine and sometimes old wine, but thats not the point. I never have and will not drink alcohol . But, I find it hard to condem the activity as such, for I cannot find any verses that speak against it- to the point its a sin.

 

[Sophia7]

Windmill,

I agree with your take on video games; they are not all evil, but some are definitely inappropriate for Christians to play. Most RPGs have occult stuff and/or lots of violence in them. My husband and I have chosen to avoid playing those kinds of games and other games that include stuff like that. We are especially wary of anything occult-related because we believe that Satan could use it to gain a foothold in our lives.

We also have been convicted about many other entertainment choices in recent months. There are some things that I think are simply not good for anyone to watch/read/play/listen to, etc. Many of the shows on TV are so violent, supernatural, sexually suggestive, etc., that I can't see anything good about watching them. You mentioned Desperate Housewives. I've never watched it, but I think that anyone who doesn't live under a rock knows that it is filled with illicit sex.

While the Bible doesn't give us specific commandments about what video games we can play or what shows we can watch, it does give us principles. The Bible tells us to guard against lust, so why would we want to watch scantily clad or naked people? The Bible condemns sex before marriage, so why would we want to see other people doing it? The Bible forbids witchcraft and necromancy, so why would we want to watch shows about psychics or mediums or witches?

The Bible says, "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things" (Philippians 4:8). The Bible also says, "I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil" (Romans 16:19).

These are pretty high standards. I think the question that we need to ask ourselves is whether our choices will cause us to think about things that will lead us away from God. I don't think that everything we do has to be religious in nature; everything secular is not necessarily evil. However, we shouldn't choose things that go against the principles that God has given us and the convictions that He has placed in our hearts.

As far as alcohol, you are right that the Bible does not specifically prohibit all alcohol use; it does condemn drunkenness. The Adventist Church has taken a stand against alcohol for health reasons and because of its detrimental impact on society. I believe that it prevents a whole lot of problems if we have nothing to do with alcohol. Alcohol causes people to do many things that they wouldn't otherwise, by lowering their inhibitions. Also, a person can have a few drinks and not be drunk but still be impaired and still cause an accident while driving. I myself have been in a car with someone who had been drinking and was swerving all over the road. It was when I was a teenager, and I had just finished babysitting, and the father was driving me home. His wife came in and paid me while he waited for me in the car, so I didn't realize it until I got into the car, but he just reeked of alcohol. That was one of the scariest experiences I've ever had; I was preparing to grab the wheel if I had to, but fortunately, he made it to my house. Anyway, I just can't see many reasons that drinking any amount of alcohol would be a good thing, even though some people like to make claims about the health benefits. There are just too many risks involved to outweigh the possible benefits.

With that said, though, many other Christians have not been convicted of these things. The Bible doesn't explicitly condemn drinking a glass of wine or having a beer. Thus, I don't think that we can use the Bible on this to tell others that they are sinning by doing so. Certainly, though, abstaining from alcohol is not in opposition to biblical principles, and for those of us who have been convicted that drinking alcohol is hazardous, it would be a sin.

 

[Windmill]

Indeed.

Nice reply I agree with you.

 

[ListenerFriendly]

MARIO IS INNCOENT FUN, but I play NO video games cause I think their boaring, listening to music rocks alot more!

I usually would spend time preaching you a sermon , but don't feel like it right yet. I have a few verses in mind that christians need to use to "guard" your behavior. I'll post all this stuff later maybe! I am too tired now. But if your conciense seems to say that it is wrong, don't do it. It probably is. But as Ellen White says, our concienses become distroted with compromises and the world and what so. Just ask for God's Spirit to guide you, HE WILL, don't get me wrong... he'll show you what is right... you can pm me for a personal story I had with him guiding me to the truth of this culture!

Hey, much love to the awesome christians of our rockin' faith!

ROCK ON

 

[OntheDL]

Hey, long time no see for a bunch of you sda members

What are your thoughts everyone on this issue?

I think you are on the right track. Wise for a 15 year old!

 

[IReckonSow]

Draw your own conclusion

Proverbs 20 [1] Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Proverbs 31 [6] Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Isaiah 5 [11]Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!

Isaiah 5 [22]Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

Isaiah 24 [9]They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.

Isaiah 28 [7]But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

Psalm 107 [27]They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man, and are at their wit's end.

Jeremiah 25 [27]Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you.

Jeremiah 51 [39] In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the Lord.

Nahum 1 [10]For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.

Habakkuk 2 [15]Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

Isaiah 28 {1}Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!

Joel 1 [5] Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.

Deut. 21 [18] If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: [19] Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; [20] And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. [21] And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. [22] And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: [23] His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

New testament. There is a sin worthy unto death.

Proverbs 23 [25}Thy father and thy mother shall be glad, and she that bare thee shall rejoice. [26] My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. [27] For a harlot is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. [28] She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men. [29] Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? [30] They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. [31] Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. [32] At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

1 Cor. 5 [11]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Cor. 6 [10]Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Luke 12 [45]But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

1 Thes. 5 [7]For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Ephes. 5 [18]And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

One or two after supper? Have at it if ya can handle it. Dont uncover your nakedness!

 

[DanPev]

Well, my belief regarding movies and tv shows is that what matters is the theme not the bad or good content. What matters is the overall story, the big picture; not minor incidents. Lets say you are watching an action movie with good themes and a good plot, however it has a bit of violence in it. Are you going to throw the whole thing away even though it teaches good things just because it has some bad content? If you answered yes, then what's your take on the Bible? The Bible has some stories with questionable elements. They are there because they teach a lesson or because the overall story is good.

As for video games, as long as they don't have obviously occult themes, they are just for entertainment, right?

Basically, whatever the Holy Spirit tells guides you to do do it, and have fun!!

 

[Windmill]

Thanks for all your responses guys