Is abortion reasonable?

[Kalevalatar]

By making infanticide legal we are basically saying that if an infant is inconvenient for you at this time you can avoid having to take care of it by killing it. Is this a reasonable position for society to take?

Equally, is this a reasonable position for society to take that the baby in the womb is sacred and ah-so prescious but as soon as the baby is out of the womb, both the baby and the mother are on their own and never mind how badly they are off, because it is inconvenient for the sad joke that is the present US political so-called "pro-life" side to contribute anything of theirs to the welfare and well-being and taking good care of this newborn life the God's greatest gift?

 

[allhart]

If life isn't sacred then what is our point of value toward human life because as it stands now no one has unity on this or common ground?

 

[sk8Joyful]

The overwhelming responses in this thread, like 100's
of such threads before it, continue in such abominable fashion, and
worse!!
they are allowed to remain?, no less in a Christian-forum.

Does Christian Forums not have a RULE FOR... Life?

Christian Forums has a bazillion rulz; but None?? for the PROTECTION of all... Unborn

What is wrong with this picture??????

ALL it takes, for evil to triumph, is for us few remaining good, to sit here, and do nothing.

 

[Jade Margery]

The overwhelming responses in this thread, like 100's
of such threads before it, continue in such abominable fashion, and
worse!!
they are allowed to remain?, no less in a Christian-forum.

Does Christian Forums not have a RULE FOR... Life?

Christian Forums has a bazillion rulz; but None?? for the PROTECTION of all... Unborn

What is wrong with this picture??????

ALL it takes, for evil to triumph, is for us few remaining good, to sit here, and do nothing.

You must be new to the E&M boards.

 

[wintermile]

I personally believe personhood starts with the ability to consciously feel pain, happiness, and other complex thoughts, which begins with frontal brain waves at around the 21 week mark (yes arbitrary, but I feel this point superior to conception or viability) which gives us a very serious disagreement gap of that 3 week period.

I recently read that fetology did not exist at the time abortion was made legal in the U.S.

Establishments of all types may benefit from introducing fetology features.

If Israelis are able to engineer synthetic cerebellums for rats, technology should exist to explore all aspects of living embryos and fetuses.

Fully Formed - The Discoveries of Fetology: Meyer, Stephen C.

Modern neurology confirms that the fetus can experience pain, not just reflex.

Well before 12 weeks, "the fetus," asserts Nathanson, "is a fully formed, absolutely identifiable human person ... indistinguishable from any of us ... in form or substance."

(Embryological and Fetological Thought of the 20th Century) Frank Lake's Maternal-Fetal Distress Syndrome: <br>- An Analysis - by Stephen M. Maret, Ph.D.

Preliminary Study of the Psychic Life of the Fetus and the Primary Germ J. Sadger

I believe first of all that which all my patients assert, that the embryo already feels plainly whether its mother loves it or not, whether she gives it much love, little love, or none at all, in many instances in fact in place of love sheer hate.

 

[yasic]

By making infanticide legal we are basically saying that if an infant is inconvenient for you at this time you can avoid having to take care of it by killing it. Is this a reasonable position for society to take?

Nope, harming a thinking human person like that is wrong, and I personally take the position that the life of a person should be held sacred by society.

 

[mdancin4theLord]

9 months before being born a lot of "unborns" don't even exist so this question makes no sense - unless you're arguing that birth control is unacceptable.



It's impossible to abort a nine month old baby since it was already born nine months prior. What are you trying to say here?

I did not mean that...let me clarify.

Abort a nine month old baby in the womb.

 

[roach]

By making abortion legal we are basically saying that if a pregnancy is inconvenient for you at this time you can stop it by killing it. Is this a reasonable position for society to take?

Society needs to figure out what 'life' is first. Then it needs to figure out what has value. Then maybe a rational discussion of how the two are related can be had.

 

[yasic]

I recently read that fetology did not exist at the time abortion was made legal in the U.S.

Establishments of all types may benefit from introducing fetology features.

If Israelis are able to engineer synthetic cerebellums for rats, technology should exist to explore all aspects of living embryos and fetuses.

Fully Formed - The Discoveries of Fetology: Meyer, Stephen C.

(Embryological and Fetological Thought of the 20th Century) Frank Lake's Maternal-Fetal Distress Syndrome: <br>- An Analysis - by Stephen M. Maret, Ph.D.

Preliminary Study of the Psychic Life of the Fetus and the Primary Germ J. Sadger

As of right now, the many biologists and other scientists that specialize in the brain that I have read about tell me that the understanding of pain and other emotions is something that occurs in the frontal cortex in the form of beta waves (or something like that), and that these do not start to occur until around week 21.

My initial reaction to briefly reading your links is that the fetus does show a more advanced reflex with many of the chemicals in the brain that are associated with pain flaring up, but lacking the frontal bits it is still just a glorified reflex that cannot actually be comprehended by the fetus in any sensible way.

I can be mistaken. I am not an expert in this field and am just throwing wild guesses.

If and when the experts tell me that you are correct and that the fetus experiences pain in the same way that you or I do, then I will agree that the non-medical limit to abortions should be lowered to before this point.

 

[mdancin4theLord]

You must be new to the E&M boards.

Ya know I am shocked as well. I have hardly met any pro-life Christians...

I don't think half the people who claim they are Christian actually are. They certainly do not know scripture.

And it would explain why the majority of women getting abortions in the United States claim to be Christian.

 

[Jade Margery]

Ya know I am shocked as well. I have hardly met any pro-life Christians...

I don't think half the people who claim they are Christian actually are. They certainly do not know scripture.

And it would explain why the majority of women getting abortions in the United States claim to be Christian.

Then I would like to formally welcome you both to the rest of the world, via the ultimate medium of communication that is the internet. There are christians who are pro-choice. There are atheists who are pro-life. There are people who read the exact same book that you have, possibly more times than you have, who think parts of it say the exact opposite of what you think they say, or who think it should all be taken literally down to the last word, or who think it is all metaphorical, or who think that it's a mixture of history and allegory, or who think that it's an interesting example of 2000 year old goat herder myths but ultimately nonsense. And most of these people, especially here, will call themselves christians. Also a lot of them will say that YOU are not actually christians, because of something that you disagree with them on (which is the delightful irony topping to everything both of you have been saying.)

If you're willing to listen to other people and converse with them respectfully, then you'll be welcome no matter what your views. If not, you'll probably be ignored or, at best, tolerated as a regular and predictable source of amusement.

 

[Archer93]

I believe in the right to bodily sovereignty until it is given away, and this right would trump while it is not given away.



I think we are all in agreement to what the situation currently is; I am simply stating I am for reform.



Absolutely. I would add the clause that upon birth the child would be put up for adoption as no rapist should be allowed to raise a child.

Much as I disagree with you with regard to your proposed reforms, I do acknowledge and admire your consistancy.
One more hypothetical- assuming said technology were viable, how would you feel about requiring the transplant of the fetus into the male partner in the case of consentual sex, where the woman in not in a position to continue the pregnancy for practical as opposed to medical reasons- i.e. lack of funds, would otherwise have to drop out of college, would be at risk of harm from family if the pregnancy were discovered, etc?

 

[Archer93]

I did not mean that...let me clarify.

Abort a nine month old baby in the womb.

Again I ask, what are the figures on that happening? By 9 months gestation any deformities in the fetus/baby would have been identified long ago, and if there were to be any risk to the mother it would already have manifested.
How many times has what you are deploring happened?

 

[Archer93]

Ya know I am shocked as well. I have hardly met any pro-life Christians...

I don't think half the people who claim they are Christian actually are. They certainly do not know scripture.

And it would explain why the majority of women getting abortions in the United States claim to be Christian.

Or they do know scripture, and are aware that there is nothing in either the Old or New Testaments that mentions abortion.

 

[IndieVisible]

By making abortion legal we are basically saying that if a pregnancy is inconvenient for you at this time you can stop it by killing it. Is this a reasonable position for society to take?

Well Hitler felt the Jews were a inconvenience and should be aborted. The majority of German's agreed at the time and so it became law. For some strange reason the rest of the world disagreed with this and intervened to stop the holocaust. We are aborting about 6000 babies a day and no one is intervening yet. After all, it's legal and the majority of the population support it. Go figure.

 

[ranunculus]

I think people take issue with the forced aspect. The forced elimination of an entire culture. This is different from having control of your own body. Having a choice.

 

[sk8Joyful]

Well Hitler felt the Jews were a inconvenience and should be aborted.
The majority of German's agreed at the time and so it became law.
For some strange reason the rest of the world disagreed with this and intervened to stop the holocaust.
We are aborting about 6000 babies a day and no one is intervening yet.
After all, it's legal and the majority of the population support it. Go figure.

Please excuse me for turning this statistic Bloody-red.

I used to be such an extrovert, readily Loving & Hugging anybody...

To think that I find myself surrounded by mass-murderers who don't even bat an eye,
snuffing out literally THOUSANDS of innocent lives every single day, done by the AMA

Um, I can not put enough distance between myself, & such creatures.

 

[Autumnleaf]

I think people take issue with the forced aspect. The forced elimination of an entire culture. This is different from having control of your own body. Having a choice.

It is the choice of one culture to kill off another culture.

 

[yasic]

Much as I disagree with you with regard to your proposed reforms, I do acknowledge and admire your consistancy.
One more hypothetical- assuming said technology were viable, how would you feel about requiring the transplant of the fetus into the male partner in the case of consentual sex, where the woman in not in a position to continue the pregnancy for practical as opposed to medical reasons- i.e. lack of funds, would otherwise have to drop out of college, would be at risk of harm from family if the pregnancy were discovered, etc?

That is a much more difficult and interesting question. The first issue that comes up is that both parties could call practical reasons. The woman may want to finish her degree, while the man would want to start a career or the like. Both parties are equally responsible for the pregnancy, so I would have to say that my answer is that the pregnancy should not be forced onto the other party in most situations as both are responsible so forcing a medical procedure on them, especially if it has even the smallest of risks, is unneeded as not much is gained.

I say most because I can think of a few where it is justified. Lets say the woman has a long history (more than two years) of a career as a construction worker, while the man is unemployed or works at a desk-job. In this situation the woman would clearly lose a lot more in her life while the man should be able to cope without too much issue. In this case a forced transplant could make much practical sense, especially if the man knew such an option would be likely before engaging in the sex act.

I guess the summary is that it should only be forced upon the other party if it can be shown that it will disrupt the other life in a serious way (You can be in college while pregnant, you can't be on scaffolding) and the decision of if it does or does not should be left to some kind of family court.

 

[yasic]

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