Is abortion better than the alternative?

[gallykid08]

there isnt a definite known cause for homosexuality. its all ''maybes''

i dont think homosexuality is genetic. 2 twins wont necassarily both be gay. i believe its hormonal/environmental.

also...abortion to prevent the abortion of babies with they gay gene...yet babies are aborted everyday who have genes for other things, or even if the child is suspected of being deaf, heart problems, spina bifida, downs syndrome, etc.

and in china girl babies were aborted.

where do we draw the line on who deserves life?? get real. everyone deserves a chance at life. whether they are ''normal'' or not ''normal''

what is normal anyway? what defines normal? by whose standards?

 

[ASLER86]

I disagree that abortion is murder. Yes yes I know all the "Taking the life of a defenseless baby" and that whole song and dance, but murder is, 9 times out of 10, a planned act of destruction that benefits no one. Abortion can save the mother's life so she may eventually bear annother child, spare a child from being raised in an abusive home, spare families extra grief, spare taxpayers extra money, lower the ammount of children in orphanages.

"Abortion can save the mother's life so she may bear another child?"

Do you have reference for that?

I'll add in my argument later, I want to hear yours first and give you the chance to speak first.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

As far as the comments on data bias goes, I believe that its possible to find a better source for data on a controversial topic on a site that is pro or con. Does the AMA have anything? Any reputable studies?

"Abortion can save the mother's life so she may bear another child?"

Do you have reference for that?

I'll add in my argument later, I want to hear yours first and give you the chance to speak first.

Huh? If a mother dies in childbirth, or her birth organs are badly dammaged by a difficult pregnancy, she cant have annother child.

An abortion may save a woman's life from a situation where childbirth may be physically dangerous and potentially fatal.

I know I know "That hardly ever happens!" Ok...what happens when YOU or your wife is that "hardly"?

 

[holyorders]

This is what I see from a pro-abortion perspective:

The fetus (most of the time) is:

not really alive
made of tissue
a hassle
in the way of my life


With that logic it could be applied to anyone else too? Right?

Lets make a scenario with this logic.

Lets say I didn't like so-and-so. I really didn't like that person, that person is in the way of my life, in the way of my "freedom". Then I could first make him\her brain-dead. Hey thats not murder! Now that the person is comatose all I would have left to do is cut that person up so that person is gone for good. They weren't really alive in the coma. Right?

Or what about Uncle Smith in a coma? He is not alive. Right? All the things he used to enjoy can't be done anymore. Lets end his suffering out of mercy. He is not really alive. Right? Even if Uncle Smith is scheduled to get out of his coma in 9 months? Oh he isn't alive and he would be a hassle. Right?



The pro-abortion logic is far too faulty and grim. No matter what one believes. Nature does not support this idea anywhere. Pregnant animals are extra fierce in defense of the fetus inside them (Whether in offense or defense). The disdain for a human fetus is not found in nature nor has it been around until recent times. In fact some of the greatest natural phenomena occurs during the making and birth of life. Life and the production of life is far greater and exciting than any kind of "sex-life" or "fun". All that stuff passes away. Why not truly make a permenant mark in life? Even in a basic scientific point-of-view of "carrying out one's species".

 

[Green Man]

As far as the comments on data bias goes, I believe that its possible to find a better source for data on a controversial topic on a site that is pro or con. Does the AMA have anything? Any reputable studies?

Huh? If a mother dies in childbirth, or her birth organs are badly dammaged by a difficult pregnancy, she cant have annother child.

An abortion may save a woman's life from a situation where childbirth may be physically dangerous and potentially fatal.

I know I know "That hardly ever happens!" Ok...what happens when YOU or your wife is that "hardly"?

>>What happens when YOU or your wife is that "hardly"?This is your justification for abortion?This is the best you can do?

 

[Green Man]

That's silly. If it's really going to be a problem, the obvious solution would be not to allow testing to find out whether or not the child will be gay.

I thought you people were smarter than that.Don't you see what he's doing here?It's not about being born gay.It's an anti-abortion move that I have to admit is brilliant.Go back and read it a little more carefully.

 

[gallykid08]

what gives us the right to kill one to save the other? doctors should do everything to save BOTH and not make abortion the ONE choice.

they tend to do that you know. ''oh...your kid has downs...i made you an appointment next thursday at 2:00 across the street to terminate the pregnancy''

etc.

again...where do we draw the line?? how do we define who can live and who cant?

its something i dont think we should even touch.

 

[gallykid08]

look at my eye twitchin

i had to go to the ER once this week...dont make me do it again

 

[Rae]

what gives us the right to kill one to save the other?

Um, the fact that we don't want the mother and baby to die together, like they will if an ectopic pregnancy isn't ended? I don't see why, as Christians, the idea of compassion for a woman in this situation is so foreign to you. It comes as second nature to me.

 

[Voodoo Gypsy]

I think it is great that you want to lower abortion, but, I didn't hear anyone say anything about adopting 1.2 million babies. I heard an offer to adopt a baby, but could you tell me where you heard someone wanting to adopt 1.2 million babies?

*~*Chloe Williams*~*

The woman said that if you're going to get an abortion then give her the baby and she'll raise it. The point is I doubt if people showed up to her door and started handing her kids, that she'd accept all or even most of them. The point is her whimsical offer to raise the baby has no basis in reality and isn't a solution to abortion.

 

[Voodoo Gypsy]

Your twisting my words and reading me too literally.

I did not say that I would adopt every baby. I would love to adopt but not all agencies smile upon young single women. I am also still in college and I do not have to money to adopt but as soon as I can I want to adopt. Catch up with me in a few years and I will tell you how many children I have/want. I am thinking at least 5-7 or so. And yes, 1.2 million is a lot but I want to help children, even if it is only a small ripple in a big pond. I was mainly speaking if a close friend or someone I knew was thinking of abortion I would be more than willing to help and take on their child if she didn't want it.

Ah. So then you don't even pretend to offer a solution to abortion. You're just asking for babies without the intention of actually raising them. Got it. So you're adding no solution to the problem, only making fanciful declerations that sound good.

Also, where would our world be if we didn't have Hitler? The world would be drastically different that's for sure. The same if we didn't have Martin Luther King Jr. or Abraham Lincoln or George Washington. I was merely stating do we really know the long-term consequences of our actions?

You choose to think that every abortion ends a potential Martin Luther King Jr. or Abraham Lincoln. That again is fanciful thinking. You ignore the fact that abortion has an equal potential of aborting the next Hitler as it does the next Washington. Frankly I think the whole conversation is stupid because you're talking about banning abortion on the basis of "what if" for the fetus without considering the solid facts of the situation. Do you know the long term consequences of banning abortion? Obviously not. We have a better understanding of abortion than we do of having it banned, since abortion has been around since people were getting pregnant when they didn't want to be, and the period where abortion was illegal in the US was very fleeting.

 

[Voodoo Gypsy]

Your misunderstanding me again.

No, you're misunderstanding me.

[QUOTEThat comment was in response to someone commenting that abortion is fine because there are so many children in foster care and I was saying that many of the children in foster care are older children who were removed from their home because of abuse or neglect NOT children who were not adopted from birth after being given up by their birth mothers.[/QUOTE]

Does it matter how they got into the Foster Care system? The fact remains that they're still there and they still need homes and right now we have about twice more kids in Foster Care than families willing to adopt them.

 

[Voodoo Gypsy]

*banging head against desk*

Did you see my other post where I go through certain stages of the baby in utero?

To repeat myself:

At forty days (or six weeks) electrical brain waves can be measured. (abortionfacts.com and Curt Young The Least of These)
During the third month: Pain receptors have definately formed, the skin is sensitive to touch (Curt Young The Least of These)

At the sixth month the eyes are opened.

As far as conciousness--brain activity is measured, and the fetus responds to loud noises and it has been shown to relax to mother's voice....that shows a good amount of conciousness.
Unless the fetus could talk, could we measure how much? Even newborn babies can't talk but we know that they are concious and they at least think something although we don't know what.

oy...

Ignoring the fact that source is highly questionable at best...

Most abortions are done in the first trimester, several months before month 6.

 

[Voodoo Gypsy]

I believe that life starts in utero, period.

Most people won't disagree with that.

I've seen a video of a fetus reacting to an abortion, how the heart rate jumps and how the unborn baby jumps around trying to avoid the foreign object. I KNOW in my heart and in my soul and my research confirms that life starts in utero.

And I've seen pepper, floating on the surface of water, jump away from a drop of liquid dishwashing soap. Somebody alert the media, pepper is a living thing and it jumping away from the soap proves it.

From another viewpoint, the fetus is capable of life, therefore it is alive. Aborting it is damaging the potential that that little life has.

Seeds have the potential of life. That doesn't make them alive. Sperm and eggs are capable of life, that doesn't mean they are a life yet. The eggs I had for breakfast had the potential for life, but that doesn't mean I had chicken for breakfast.

 

[gallykid08]

where do u get asler as adopting babies but not raising them? if she adopted them...she'd raise them


yes i am familiar with etoptic pregnancies...and yes that is another issue.

im talking about abortions where the doctor automatically schedules an appointment to ''terminate the pregnancy'' for a ''defective child'' or that might put a risk to mother OR child.

i am not sure how i feel about etoptic pregnancies to be honest.

babies can feel pain, and cry, in the womb. so that is a BIG consideration in abortion. in fact i believe there is a law going through congress or wherever about that. saw it in the newspaper when i was at work.

please, dont put ur personal opinions and twist it to put words into other people's mouths.

this is getting heavy

solution...USE birth control. then there wouldnt be the need for abortion of ''unwanted'' babies and pregnancies.

for saving mother and baby...i dont think we have the right to choose one of the other. and i say again...doctors need to focus on finding ways to save BOTH.

etoptic pregnancies is another issue. one that i am not completely sure about.

i do have compassion, thanks.

and pepper isnt alive. no heartbeat. babies have heartbeats. BIG difference.

 

[Rae]

dont put ur personal opinions and twist it to put words into other people's mouths.

You understand I'm going to ask the same of you, right? And most anti-abortion people in this thread do at least as much of this as the pro-choice ones do, so I'm not sanguine about the outcome.

 

[gallykid08]

well...i'd like to see where i am twisting words and putting them into people's mouths first of all.

if i am twisting words...tell me. i dont want to be doing that.

 

[gallykid08]

Most people won't disagree with that.



And I've seen pepper, floating on the surface of water, jump away from a drop of liquid dishwashing soap. Somebody alert the media, pepper is a living thing and it jumping away from the soap proves it.



Seeds have the potential of life. That doesn't make them alive. Sperm and eggs are capable of life, that doesn't mean they are a life yet. The eggs I had for breakfast had the potential for life, but that doesn't mean I had chicken for breakfast.

seeds dont have heartbeat and brainwaves

and i think eggs are non-fertilized chicken eggs. so of course they're not life...

 

[Voodoo Gypsy]

Only 1% of abortions are performed because of rape
95% are because of convenience
(source: Central Illinois Right to Life)

Considering a majority of rapes go unreported, you can't accurately have a statistic saying how many abortions were from rape, especially since most states require abortions from rape to be reported to police and people will lie in order to keep their boyfriends/rapists (since most rapes aren't stranger rapes) from being arrested or their rape from being exposed. On the flip side some states, like mine, don't even have "rape" as a choice for abortion. Don't you find it odd that every 2 minutes somebody is sexually assualted and between 25 and 35% of women are sexually assaulted in their lives, but reported abortions for rape are so low?

Secondly, I don't know of anybody who said "I got an abortion because it was conveniant.

According to the 2003-2004 Planned Parenthood Report-
They performed 6.1% more abortions this past year
For every 1 adoption referrel 138 abortions were performed
Nearly a quarter million abortions were performed in 12 months
(Source: lifeissues.org/pp/index.html)

Gosh, how shocking. Who would have thought that Planned Parenthood, whom everybody knows provides abortions in some of their clinics, would perform more abortions than adoption refferals? Next you're going to tell me that for every 138 times somebody takes their car to a mechanic, only one goes to the mechanic to ask where to sell their car and the other 137 go there to get their cars fixed.

And why I'm at it, although the growing problem may be a problem in other countries, it is not a big problem for the United States. According to census.gov there is a birth every 8 seconds and a death every 11, so the US is growing at a -1% every year, so we are in a population decline. (abortionfacts.com/abortion/q_facts.asp)

Check your math again. If there is a birth every 8 seconds and a death every 11, that means every minute 8 people are born and 5 people die. 480 people are born every hour, 300 die every hour. That would not put the population at a decline.

Approx 4000 abortions are performed each day in the United States alone amounting to over a million each year, and for every third birth an abortion is performed (abortionfacts.com)

I think most of us will agree that there are too many abortions. That's why most pro-choice people are doing something about it. We realize that banning abortion won't change that number.

 

[Voodoo Gypsy]

This is what I see from a pro-abortion perspective:

The fetus (most of the time) is:

not really alive
made of tissue
a hassle
in the way of my life

I've never met a pro-abortion person, so maybe there will be one that can answer your questions. As far as I've seen, there are a lot of pro-choice people here and a spattering of anti-choice or anti-abortion people here. No pro-abortion people though.