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Why shouldn't we think of holiness as a moral quality?
The term "saint" doesn't mean you don't sin, but the term "sinner" in Scripture refers to someone who remains at enmity with God.
I am reckoned holy, a saint, because Christ is holy, not because I am holy. I am most certainly not holy.
-CryptoLutheran
The term "saint" doesn't mean you don't sin, but the term "sinner" in Scripture refers to someone who remains at enmity with God.
Well, yes, but isn't this because Christ's holiness is imputed to our account? If so, I don't see why this is opposed to holiness describing a moral quality.
Yes, by imputation. The problem is in thinking that our actions or inactions play a role in this; as though holiness were a moral quality we attain through thought, word, or deed. It's not about my morality, it's about God's grace.
-CryptoLutheran
I don't believe this is always the case. Paul calls himself the chief of sinners in the present tense. The publican in the temple says: "God have mercy on me, a sinner".
But this is generally the case.
Btw, Penal Atonement is the Gospel.
It may be. But because it's not always the case, it is not wrong to think of ourselves as sinners.
I agree. But I thought you had said that one who denies PSA is not a Christian. That's a bit stronger.
In 1 John 3:1, God's word says we are "called children of God".But what do you think? Should we as Born Again Christians call ourselves "Sinners" or "Saints"?
I believe it does good to make a distinction between saint and sinner as we read in Scripture that distinction.
If PSA is the gospel, then you aren't a Christian if you deny it. I question your profession with such a statement.
Why shouldn't we think of holiness as a moral quality?
I don't believe this is always the case. Paul calls himself the chief of sinners in the present tense. The publican in the temple says: "God have mercy on me, a sinner".
Holiness is more of a cultic concept, it means something set apart.
Let's leave it that way, my suggestion.
I do believe that holy things are set apart, but I don't believe this is an adequate definition of holiness. God is holy and has always been holy - even before creation. But before creation, how could God have been holy if He alone existed?
God never existed alone, obviously. The doctrine of the Trinity doesn't imply that kind of lack in God's nature.
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