IS 1 JOHN 5:18 REAL ?

Dan Perez · Oct 18, 2024

A person that I know ask me is 1 John 5:18 is real and believable for TODAY ?

We know that whosoever is BORN of God SINNETH NOT// OU , and the Greek word NOT //OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , and that

that means anyone born of n God , will never SIN ?

Your thoughts as to what 1 John 5:18 really means ??

dan p

d taylor · Oct 18, 2024

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The person who is born of God does not sin. That is because that person is the life of God, The Helper Jesus states He will send.

So in the born again believe is the person's sin nature, but they also have now another non sin nature God.
They will eventually lose the sin nature upon death, but will keep the perfect nature God/Eternal Life.

Dan Perez · Oct 18, 2024

d taylor said:
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The person who is born of God does not sin. That is because that person is the life of God, The Helper Jesus states He will send.

So in the born again believe is the person's sin nature, but they also have now another non sin nature God.
They will eventually lose the sin nature upon death, but will keep the perfect nature God/Eternal Life.

But in 1 John 5:18 sinneth NOT // IS A DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and that means , that born of God will never sin ever AGAIN !!

Where is a verse where all can be BORN of God that explains how that happens ??

Is that what you mean //

dan p

d taylor · Oct 18, 2024

Dan Perez said:
But in 1 John 5:18 sinneth NOT // IS A DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and that means , that born of God will never sin ever AGAIN !!

Where is a verse where all can be BORN of God that explains how that happens ??

Is that what you mean //

dan p

-

A great book by Zane Hodges on The Epistles of John

https://faithalone.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Hodges_EpistlesofJohn_ShorterCommentary.pdf

T.i.m.o.t.h.y. · Oct 18, 2024

Dan Perez said:
A person that I know ask me is 1 John 5:18 is real and believable for TODAY ?

We know that whosoever is BORN of God SINNETH NOT// OU , and the Greek word NOT //OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , and that

that means anyone born of n God , will never SIN ?

Your thoughts as to what 1 John 5:18 really means ??

dan p

It's not hard to find Christians struggling with sin, see Rms 7, and 1Jhn.1:9,2:1 prove that sin uses habit and enticement to still be a hindrance from spiritual growth.

The verse 1Jhn.5:18 uses a word there that unfortunately was generalized to [sin]. Which only produces questions and confusion of what the verse is saying.

According to the extensive study I once did, the word translated [sin] speaks of having a deliberate tendency to actively behave like a reprobate which is not forgivable. Recall Hebrews 6.

I'm probably over simplifying it because I don't have the research papers in front of me at the moment.

That is far different than a true born again Christian who desires to please God and cries out to God for help against any weakness of the flesh. Remember what Jesus said "Pray that you not enter into temptation." and "Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil."

So let me say 1Jhn.5:18 this way.. 'whoever is born of God will not be reprobate'. Because the saved has a new righteous nature and no longer a sinful nature that they can't resist. Most Christians sin, but it's forgivable.

eleos1954 · Oct 19, 2024

Dan Perez said:
A person that I know ask me is 1 John 5:18 is real and believable for TODAY ?

We know that whosoever is BORN of God SINNETH NOT// OU , and the Greek word NOT //OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , and that

that means anyone born of n God , will never SIN ?

Your thoughts as to what 1 John 5:18 really means ??

dan p

18We know that anyone born of God does not keep on sinning;

One born of God does not keep on sinning ... does not mean we will never sin.

We are made aware when we sin (by the Holy Spirit) ... we repent, receive forgiveness and continue on in Christ. When we continue in Christ He helps to protect us from continuously sinning.

If we willingly ignore the Holy Spirit and keep on sinning then that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit .... if we willfully continue in sin at some point (God decides) will remove His Holy Spirit ... however He is long suffering.

So no .... does not mean we won't sin .... means we won't willingly continue in sin.

Dan Perez · Oct 19, 2024

eleos1954 said:
18We know that anyone born of God does not keep on sinning;

One born of God does not keep on sinning ... does not mean we will never sin.

We are made aware when we sin (by the Holy Spirit) ... we repent, receive forgiveness and continue on in Christ. When we continue in Christ He helps to protect us from continuously sinning.

# 1 If we willingly ignore the Holy Spirit and keep on sinning then that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit .... if we willfully continue in sin at some point (God decides) will remove His Holy Spirit ... however He is long suffering.

So no .... does not mean we won't sin .... means we won't willingly continue in sin.

# 1 I wrote # 1 , where if we willingly ignore the n Holy Spirit and keep on sinning , then that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

please provide a verse ??

And who is John speaking too ??

To those uinder the Law of Moses ?

To the BODY of Christ ??

To those under the New Covenant ??

To those in the MILLENNIAL KINGDOM ??

Or to those in the GREAT TRIBULATION ??

dan p

Hoping2 · Oct 19, 2024

eleos1954 said:
18We know that anyone born of God does not keep on sinning;

One born of God does not keep on sinning ... does not mean we will never sin.

I disagree.

eleos1954 said:
We are made aware when we sin (by the Holy Spirit) ... we repent, receive forgiveness and continue on in Christ. When we continue in Christ He helps to protect us from continuously sinning.

God had this written..." There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Sinners are apparently not born of God.
His children seek out the promised escapes from temptation.

eleos1954 said:
If we willingly ignore the Holy Spirit and keep on sinning then that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit .... if we willfully continue in sin at some point (God decides) will remove His Holy Spirit ... however He is long suffering.

God's seed cannot ever bring forth the devil's fruit.

eleos1954 said:
So no .... does not mean we won't sin .... means we won't willingly continue in sin.

All sin is willingly done. (James 1:14-15)

Dan Perez · Oct 19, 2024

Hoping2 said:
I disagree.

God had this written..." There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Sinners are apparently not born of God.
His children seek out the promised escapes from temptation.

God's seed cannot ever bring forth the devil's fruit.

All sin is willingly done. (James 1:14-15)

And you wrote " one born of God DOES not keep on sinning .

How is one BORN of God , with a verse ??

Then you wrote , DOES not mean we will never SIN ??

AND will you explain what that means with a verse ??

dan p

Hoping2 · Oct 19, 2024

Dan Perez said:
And you wrote " one born of God DOES not keep on sinning .

Yes I did, (but I would have capitalized the word NOT instead of Does.)

Dan Perez said:
How is one BORN of God , with a verse ??

It happens at baptism into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.
It is written in Rom 6:4..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
That newness of life, is the life of the reborn.

Dan Perez said:
Then you wrote , DOES not mean we will never SIN ??

You must be thinking of someone else, as I would never accommodate sin with such a false doctrine.

Dan Perez said:
AND will you explain what that means with a verse ??
dan p

You won't find a verse saying we cannot quit sinning.

Aristarkos · Oct 20, 2024

Dan Perez said:
A person that I know ask me is 1 John 5:18 is real and believable for TODAY ?

We know that whosoever is BORN of God SINNETH NOT// OU , and the Greek word NOT //OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , and that

that means anyone born of n God , will never SIN ?

Your thoughts as to what 1 John 5:18 really means ??

dan p

This is where seeing the dispensations is vital. Being born of God is promised to Israel in the OT although not with these words. I'll quote an example.

Deu. 30:6 "And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

When one is born of God when the Kingdom was still preached one also got the gifts of the Holy Spirit which Paul describes in 1 Cor. 12:8 — 10. When ALL those gifts were present they were baptized into one body. Where are those bodies today? In what church do they have all the gifts?

In the dispensation of Grace or the dispensation of the mystery being born of God is not national Israeli but personal. It is the first stage on the way of salvation and one should not stay there. One should follow Paul. Paul goes to justification by faith, being a son of God, which is the second stage on the way of salvation. Most don't even see these two groups let alone the third stage on the way of salvation, which I won't go into now.

So to answer your question, since a born again has none of the gifts he can easily sin. Even a son of God can sin no matter how much they struggle with it. In the dispensation of Grace, it's grace that is given to us abundantly. Not deserved given anyway, that should make us all very humble. Of course the above is just in short.

Aristarkos

Hoping2 · Oct 20, 2024

Aristarkos said:
This is where seeing the dispensations is vital. Being born of God is promised to Israel in the OT although not with these words. I'll quote an example.

Deu. 30:6 "And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live."

When one is born of God when the Kingdom was still preached one also got the gifts of the Holy Spirit which Paul describes in 1 Cor. 12:8 — 10. When ALL those gifts were present they were baptized into one body. Where are those bodies today? In what church do they have all the gifts?

In the dispensation of Grace or the dispensation of the mystery being born of God is not national Israeli but personal. It is the first stage on the way of salvation and one should not stay there. One should follow Paul. Paul goes to justification by faith, being a son of God, which is the second stage on the way of salvation. Most don't even see these two groups let alone the third stage on the way of salvation, which I won't go into now.

So to answer your question, since a born again has none of the gifts he can easily sin. Even a son of God can sin no matter how much they struggle with it. In the dispensation of Grace, it's grace that is given to us abundantly. Not deserved given anyway, that should make us all very humble. Of course the above is just in short.

Aristarkos

You are using the grace of God as a license to continue walking in the flesh.

Aristarkos · Oct 20, 2024

Hoping2 said:
You are using the grace of God as a license to continue walking in the flesh.

Are you without sin? Do you never sin anymore? Do you never desire something of someone you shouldn't? You know the answer to those questions, so you are using the grace of God as a license to continue walking in the flesh as well? "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

Aristarkos

St_Worm2 · Oct 21, 2024

Dan Perez said:
A person that I know ask me is 1 John 5:18 is real and believable for TODAY ?

We know that whosoever is BORN of God SINNETH NOT// OU , and the Greek word NOT //OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , and that

that means anyone born of n God , will never SIN ?

Your thoughts as to what 1 John 5:18 really means ??

dan p

Hello Dan, I believe that the ESV Bible's translation/paraphrase of this verse is helpful, in the same way that it is with other, similar verses in this Epistle .. e.g. 1 John 3:9 at getting at what is truly being said.

1 John 5 (ESV)

18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.

The verb translated "sins/sinning" in v18 is in the Greek present tense (which speaks of something that is happening right now, as well of something that will continue to happen going forward ... in this case in the sense of an impenitent, sinful "lifestyle", the kind of lifestyle that those outside of Christ are characterized by, and that all of us were once characterized by too .. e.g. Ephesians 2:1-3).

I hope that helps!!

It's also important to remember that the same man who wrote Chapters 3 & 5, also wrote Chapters 1 & 2, because we see (in Chapters 1-2) that he (the elder Apostle John) ~included himself~ in the mix (with everyone else in the church) as someone who still needed to confess his sins to God whenever he committed them (check out the pronouns in bold below).

1 John 1

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgiven us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteous.

God bless you!!

--David

roman2819 · Oct 21, 2024

Dan Perez said:
A person that I know ask me is 1 John 5:18 is real and believable for TODAY ?

We know that whosoever is BORN of God SINNETH NOT// OU , and the Greek word NOT //OU is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE , and that

that means anyone born of n God , will never SIN ?

Your thoughts as to what 1 John 5:18 really means ??

dan p

Actually it's a matter of how John said it. What he mean qas : Those who are born again will not want to I indulge in sins, they do longer like the previous depraved way of.living. It's not that they will never sin.

And if they sin they ask God for forgiveness and try not to sin. We will never be sinless but we become more conscious of sins and try to refrain from sins.

Dan Perez · Oct 21, 2024

d taylor said:
-

A great book by Zane Hodges on The Epistles of John

https://faithalone.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Hodges_EpistlesofJohn_ShorterCommentary.pdf

But the bible in 1 John 5:18 says , SINNETH , NOT // A DISJUNCATIVE NEGATIVE and the means that person can NEVER SIN AGAIN , and that Greek word NOT // OU is used 2 times in verse 18 !!

Looking at John 3:Except a man be BORN AGAIN he CANNOT // DYNAMIA , is in the Present Tense , Middle or Present Voice

in the Indicative Mood , which means you better believe it , in the Singular

Then in John 3:Except a Man be BORN of WATER and of the Spirit , he cannot enter the Kingdom of God .

The whole CONTEXT is speaking about Israel .

The BODY of Christ that are saved by GRACE and then PLACED into the Body of Christ 1 Cor 12;13 are not placed into the B OF C with WATER as the Greek word WATER // HUDOR is not in the Greek text in 1 Cor 12 : 13 !!

Since all those saved by Grace of God , become PART of Christ as written in 1 Cor 12-17 and we re Christ , his FEET ,

we are his HANDS , verse 16 , we are his EYE , are his FEET , his EAR , we his HEARING and we are HIS , SMELLING , and

and this means that the BODY of does not become SIN !!

Paul had to deal with one in 1 Cor 5:1-13 and that son was turned over to SATAN for the DEATH of the flesh in ORDER

that the spirit may be saved in the Day of the Lord Jesus ..

dan p

Hoping2 · Oct 21, 2024

Aristarkos said:
Are you without sin?

Yes.

Aristarkos said:
Do you never sin anymore?

No.

Aristarkos said:
Do you never desire something of someone you shouldn't?

No.

Aristarkos said:
You know the answer to those questions, so you are using the grace of God as a license to continue walking in the flesh as well? "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

By the grace of God, I was offered, and accepted the gift of repentance from sin.
I turned from sin.

By the grace of God I was offered the gift of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
I have been washed of past sins by the blood of Christ.

By the grace of God I have been offered the gift of the Holy Ghost/Comforter.
I now have the reborn's divine nature.

By the grace of God, I will endure faithfully until the end !

Dan Perez · Oct 21, 2024

Hoping2 said:
Yes.

No.

No.

By the grace of God, I was offered, and accepted the gift of repentance from sin.
I turned from sin.

By the grace of God I was offered the gift of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
I have been washed of past sins by the blood of Christ.

By the grace of God I have been offered the gift of the Holy Ghost/Comforter.
I now have the reborn's divine nature.

By the grace of God, I will endure faithfully until the end !

Just asking , where does it sat WATER BAPTISM saves ??

dan p

Aristarkos · Oct 21, 2024

Dan Perez said:
Just asking , where does it sat WATER BAPTISM saves ??

He (so not you) is without sin he thinks, except one very big one, but he has his eyes shut for it.

Proverbs 12:22 says, “Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but they that deal truly are His delight.”

Aristarkos

Dan Perez · Oct 22, 2024

Aristarkos said:
He (so not you) is without sin he thinks, except one very big one, but he has his eyes shut for it.

Proverbs 12:22 says, “Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but they that deal truly are His delight.”

Aristarkos

And I found one for you in 1 Peter 3:21 and it says that The like figure whereunto ( even was added to the Greek text )

doth also now SAVE US .

Just asking if you believe that verse ??

dan p

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