Introduction

[Brian Daniel]

My name is Brian, and I've started attending a Episcopal Church, and met with a priest today to answer questions I had, and it was quite pleasant. I am a former convert to the RCC, and spent many years in Evangelicalism since leaving the RCC. I feel like I am "wired" more or less for liturgical worship, but I do not believe in the papacy or wish to give any man or person other than Jesus the kind of authority over my life that the Pope had. I have been increasingly become sad with hate (LGBT kids killing themselves because of bullying for instance), and Evangelicalism does not reflect my feelings on that particular issue, and IMO adds more to the problem of hate than it solves.

With that being said, I know there is a wide-range of views within the Anglican Communion on this and other hot-button issues. I am thankful that there is a church where reasonable people can co-exist and have a discussion without questioning one another's salvation or anathematizing each other.

I am fairly conservative theologically, but I have more progressive views in the areas of LGBT people living a Christian life, as well as the role of women in ministry. I am in the process of leaving Evangelicalism, and the church I have attended for the last twelve years, and it is heart-wrenching for me. Thanks in advance for your understanding if I seem like a newbie to the CofE.

 

[Catherineanne]

My name is Brian, and I've started attending a Episcopal Church, and met with a priest today to answer questions I had, and it was quite pleasant. I am a former convert to the RCC, and spent many years in Evangelicalism since leaving the RCC. I feel like I am "wired" more or less for liturgical worship, but I do not believe in the papacy or wish to give any man or person other than Jesus the kind of authority over my life that the Pope had. I have been increasingly become sad with hate (LGBT kids killing themselves because of bullying for instance), and Evangelicalism does not reflect my feelings on that particular issue, and IMO adds more to the problem of hate than it solves.

With that being said, I know there is a wide-range of views within the Anglican Communion on this and other hot-button issues. I am thankful that there is a church where reasonable people can co-exist and have a discussion without questioning one another's salvation or anathematizing each other.

I am fairly conservative theologically, but I have more progressive views in the areas of LGBT people living a Christian life, as well as the role of women in ministry. I am in the process of leaving Evangelicalism, and the church I have attended for the last twelve years, and it is heart-wrenching for me. Thanks in advance for your understanding if I seem like a newbie to the CofE.

Hiya, Brian. Nice to meet you.

I'm sorry you are leaving a church after 12 years; that can't be easy.

 

[Brian Daniel]

Is praying the Catholic version of the rosary unheard of and weird for Anglicans? I found it somewhat soothing to pray the rosary when I was a Catholic, but I do have reservations addressing prayers to Mary, and I don't believe in the Assumption and Coronation mysteries of the rosary. JPII added Luminous mysteries, but I don't recall what they are. Any insight?

 

[Catherineanne]

Is praying the Catholic version of the rosary unheard of and weird for Anglicans? I found it somewhat soothing to pray the rosary when I was a Catholic, but I do have reservations addressing prayers to Mary, and I don't believe in the Assumption and Coronation mysteries of the rosary. JPII added Luminous mysteries, but I don't recall what they are. Any insight?

No, I pray the rosary, and many other Anglo Catholics do the same; there is no problem with that. Anglicanism is a very broad church.

All you have to remember is Cana; Our Lady always tells us to do whatever her Son tells us to do. She does not give us instructions of her own which are separate from the will of God.

Luminous are the Baptism of the Lord, the Wedding at Cana, the Proclamation of the Kingdom, the Transfiguration and the Institution of the Eucharist.

 

[Brian Daniel]

No, I pray the rosary, and many other Anglo Catholics do the same; there is no problem with that. Anglicanism is a very broad church.

All you have to remember is Cana; Our Lady always tells us to do whatever her Son tells us to do. She does not give us instructions of her own which are separate from the will of God.

Luminous are the Baptism of the Lord, the Wedding at Cana, the Proclamation of the Kingdom, the Transfiguration and the Institution of the Eucharist.

Thanks. Those are nice.

 

[Catherineanne]

Thanks. Those are nice.

They are indeed. And if you put them between the Joyful and the Sorrowful, there is a wonderful continuity from the Last Supper to Gethsemane.

 

[mark46]

No, I pray the rosary, and many other Anglo Catholics do the same; there is no problem with that. Anglicanism is a very broad church.

All you have to remember is Cana; Our Lady always tells us to do whatever her Son tells us to do. She does not give us instructions of her own which are separate from the will of God.

Luminous are the Baptism of the Lord, the Wedding at Cana, the Proclamation of the Kingdom, the Transfiguration and the Institution of the Eucharist.

 

[Brian Daniel]

I really enjoyed the service this morning. For 12 years I've been spiritually dry in a praise-team style worship service, and had topical sermons that took Bible verses as proof texts from such varying parts of the Bible that it was impossible to actually follow along in my Bible. I really appreciate lectionary readings that are coherent, and don't lead me to wonder which thing I am hearing is God's Word, and which part is man's (the pastor's) commentary. And the songs in the hymnal actual have theological substance, and aren't just happy-clappy praise and worship songs with a rock band; I love the organ and piano in church! I also really like having an altar rail to kneel at as I remember Jesus' death on my behalf, receiving the bread and wine. I don't believe in transubstantiation, but I also don't think the bread and wine are mere symbols. I would argue that Jesus is actually received in a spiritual manner in communion, but that the elements should not be worshiped as Jesus' body, blood, soul, and divinity, whole and entire. I am finding the Episcopal church to be a happy medium between what is wholesome and good with Catholicism, and what I share theologically with Reformed and Evangelicals. I have my joy in the Lord again, and I think I have found home. I wish my wife would join me, but she sees it as Catholic, and she is prejudiced against anything she thinks is Romish (my term). I hope that some of the more conservative Anglicans who may disagree with me on issues such as the consecration of Eugene Robinson will still engage me in discussion. I get along very well with reasonable people.

God bless,

 

[PaladinValer]

My name is Brian, and I've started attending a Episcopal Church, and met with a priest today to answer questions I had, and it was quite pleasant. I am a former convert to the RCC, and spent many years in Evangelicalism since leaving the RCC. I feel like I am "wired" more or less for liturgical worship, but I do not believe in the papacy or wish to give any man or person other than Jesus the kind of authority over my life that the Pope had. I have been increasingly become sad with hate (LGBT kids killing themselves because of bullying for instance), and Evangelicalism does not reflect my feelings on that particular issue, and IMO adds more to the problem of hate than it solves.

Welcome to the Anglican Communion and The Episcopal Church!

I hope you will be well fed, inspired, and refreshed here.

With that being said, I know there is a wide-range of views within the Anglican Communion on this and other hot-button issues. I am thankful that there is a church where reasonable people can co-exist and have a discussion without questioning one another's salvation or anathematizing each other.

There are certain issues, of course, that do go beyond boundaries even with Anglicanism, but we are usually a big tent bunch.

I am fairly conservative theologically, but I have more progressive views in the areas of LGBT people living a Christian life, as well as the role of women in ministry. I am in the process of leaving Evangelicalism, and the church I have attended for the last twelve years, and it is heart-wrenching for me. Thanks in advance for your understanding if I seem like a newbie to the CofE.

I'm not sure I can entirely agree on the LGBT issue (although I do agree with you that Evangelical Protestant methods and certain practices are very detrimental), but that is simply part of the fun thing which is Anglicanism

Otherwise, I do agree on your conservative-leaning perspective and your inclusive position on women (just for you to know, a lot of conservatives within the Anglican Communion are for women clergy, so don't think you are the "odd ball" if you will). I think you will find Anglicanism to be everything you want and more.

I should also point out, however, that you are not in the Church of England proper. The Church of England is the Anglican Communion in England just as The Episcopal Church is the Anglican Communion in the US and a few other areas. So, you are in the same church, just not the same jurisdiction.

Welcome to this portion of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (which, IMO, is the fullest expression thereof)!

Is praying the Catholic version of the rosary unheard of and weird for Anglicans? I found it somewhat soothing to pray the rosary when I was a Catholic, but I do have reservations addressing prayers to Mary, and I don't believe in the Assumption and Coronation mysteries of the rosary. JPII added Luminous mysteries, but I don't recall what they are. Any insight?

I recite the Marian rosary.

Saintly venerations are a somewhat common aspect of historic Anglican belief and practice, although no one must venerate them; it is a pious option that many enjoy and others chose not too. Neither side is considered "better" or "more holy" than the other.

As for the Assumption and the Queenship, it is true that we don't recognize officially the Assumption. I suppose our closest theology on the matter would be more akin to the Eastern concept of the Dormition. As for the Queenship, again, we don't have any official position, although it would make sense given the context of the Holy Writ and as interpreted by Holy Tradition alongside Holy Reason.

I really enjoyed the service this morning. For 12 years I've been spiritually dry in a praise-team style worship service, and had topical sermons that took Bible verses as proof texts from such varying parts of the Bible that it was impossible to actually follow along in my Bible. I really appreciate lectionary readings that are coherent, and don't lead me to wonder which thing I am hearing is God's Word, and which part is man's (the pastor's) commentary.

That is one of my own biggest objections to modern day "contemporary worship" services as well.

And the songs in the hymnal actual have theological substance, and aren't just happy-clappy praise and worship songs with a rock band; I love the organ and piano in church!

Some do, but it is within moderation and always within context. For example, my priest is actually proficient with African drums (he's from Liberia actually) and he played them in our liturgy today as accompaniment for one of our musical pieces. Everyone clapped along. Given the fact that it was a spiritual piece, it made liturgical and musical sense.

However, you will find it difficult to have any "happy-clappy" stuff at our parish. Everything is done in context and in good taste.

I also really like having an altar rail to kneel at as I remember Jesus' death on my behalf, receiving the bread and wine. I don't believe in transubstantiation, but I also don't think the bread and wine are mere symbols. I would argue that Jesus is actually received in a spiritual manner in communion, but that the elements should not be worshiped as Jesus' body, blood, soul, and divinity, whole and entire.

Actually, Anglicanism does teach the Real Presence: Jesus is both physically and spiritually Present. However, as you touch upon, this doesn't necessarily mean transubstantiationism; I myself hold to the belief above and do not venture into guessing when and where during the liturgy that holy mystery happens; in other words, I believe Him to be "Objectively Present" and leave there as a holy mystery. Some Anglicans do accept transubstantiationism whereas others accept consubstantiationism or even the Lutheran view of Mystical Unionism. You'll find a diversity of pious opinion on the subject of the Real Presence in Anglicanism, all perfectly fine.

As for actual adoration, that is an optional practice. Most parishes don't even have a monstrance, humeral veils, or have a Solemn Benediction or a Corpus Christi Procession, although they are welcome and not seen as anything wrong either.

I am finding the Episcopal church to be a happy medium between what is wholesome and good with Catholicism, and what I share theologically with Reformed and Evangelicals. I have my joy in the Lord again, and I think I have found home. I wish my wife would join me, but she sees it as Catholic, and she is prejudiced against anything she thinks is Romish (my term). I hope that some of the more conservative Anglicans who may disagree with me on issues such as the consecration of Eugene Robinson will still engage me in discussion. I get along very well with reasonable people.

God bless,

I do disagree on that one issue, but I welcome you as a full and equal member altogether. One of the greatest strengths of Anglicanism is our diversity.

Again I say: Welcome to The Episcopal Church. As we like to say, "The Episcopal Church welcomes you"

 

[Brian Daniel]

Welcome to the Anglican Communion and The Episcopal Church!

I hope you will be well fed, inspired, and refreshed here.



There are certain issues, of course, that do go beyond boundaries even with Anglicanism, but we are usually a big tent bunch.



I'm not sure I can entirely agree on the LGBT issue (although I do agree with you that Evangelical Protestant methods and certain practices are very detrimental), but that is simply part of the fun thing which is Anglicanism

Otherwise, I do agree on your conservative-leaning perspective and your inclusive position on women (just for you to know, a lot of conservatives within the Anglican Communion are for women clergy, so don't think you are the "odd ball" if you will). I think you will find Anglicanism to be everything you want and more.

I should also point out, however, that you are not in the Church of England proper. The Church of England is the Anglican Communion in England just as The Episcopal Church is the Anglican Communion in the US and a few other areas. So, you are in the same church, just not the same jurisdiction.

Welcome to this portion of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (which, IMO, is the fullest expression thereof)!



I recite the Marian rosary.

Saintly venerations are a somewhat common aspect of historic Anglican belief and practice, although no one must venerate them; it is a pious option that many enjoy and others chose not too. Neither side is considered "better" or "more holy" than the other.

As for the Assumption and the Queenship, it is true that we don't recognize officially the Assumption. I suppose our closest theology on the matter would be more akin to the Eastern concept of the Dormition. As for the Queenship, again, we don't have any official position, although it would make sense given the context of the Holy Writ and as interpreted by Holy Tradition alongside Holy Reason.



That is one of my own biggest objections to modern day "contemporary worship" services as well.



Some do, but it is within moderation and always within context. For example, my priest is actually proficient with African drums (he's from Liberia actually) and he played them in our liturgy today as accompaniment for one of our musical pieces. Everyone clapped along. Given the fact that it was a spiritual piece, it made liturgical and musical sense.

However, you will find it difficult to have any "happy-clappy" stuff at our parish. Everything is done in context and in good taste.



Actually, Anglicanism does teach the Real Presence: Jesus is both physically and spiritually Present. However, as you touch upon, this doesn't necessarily mean transubstantiationism; I myself hold to the belief above and do not venture into guessing when and where during the liturgy that holy mystery happens; in other words, I believe Him to be "Objectively Present" and leave there as a holy mystery. Some Anglicans do accept transubstantiationism whereas others accept consubstantiationism or even the Lutheran view of Mystical Unionism. You'll find a diversity of pious opinion on the subject of the Real Presence in Anglicanism, all perfectly fine.

As for actual adoration, that is an optional practice. Most parishes don't even have a monstrance, humeral veils, or have a Solemn Benediction or a Corpus Christi Procession, although they are welcome and not seen as anything wrong either.



I do disagree on that one issue, but I welcome you as a full and equal member altogether. One of the greatest strengths of Anglicanism is our diversity.

Again I say: Welcome to The Episcopal Church. As we like to say, "The Episcopal Church welcomes you"

Thanks for all of the great info, and I appreciate your welcoming spirit. I was a Latin mass attending Catholic back in the day; maybe I can brush up on my Latin pronunciation if I pray the rosary in Latin.

 

[brightmorningstar]

I am thankful that there is a church where reasonable people can co-exist and have a discussion without questioning one another's salvation or anathematizing each other.

But is this church exactly? The NT encourages brothers and sisters to correct each other according to the scripture, and restore each other gently.

I am fairly conservative theologically, but I have more progressive views in the areas of LGBT people living a Christian life

Well the NT scripture warns same sex relations as a barrier to the Kingdom so in response to your first point.
In what way do you mean LGBT people living a Christian life? If you mean Christians living a Christian life sure, but if you mean LGBT people, in what way is that a Christian belief? And if you mean implying people in same sex relations are living a Christian life then no.

I know some fellow Christians who have same sex attraction, but they arent in same sex relationships and I see them as fellow Christians.

 

[Brian Daniel]

But is this church exactly? The NT encourages brothers and sisters to correct each other according to the scripture, and restore each other gently.

Well the NT scripture warns same sex relations as a barrier to the Kingdom so in response to your first point.
In what way do you mean LGBT people living a Christian life? If you mean Christians living a Christian life sure, but if you mean LGBT people, in what way is that a Christian belief? And if you mean implying people in same sex relations are living a Christian life then no.

I know some fellow Christians who have same sex attraction, but they arent in same sex relationships and I see them as fellow Christians.

I am a Christian, faithfully married to a woman for 13 years, and I have had same sex as well as opposite sex attraction most of my life. I literally drove myself to injuring myself trying to make the secret homosexual feelings go away that I had been raised to believe made me so worthless and dirty. I consider myself to fall under the umbrella of LGBT people, and I am living a Christian life. I don't believe in reparative therapy, and don't believe that sexual orientation is something one can change.

I do not wish to debate the morality of same-sex relations, and I don't think I am allowed to debate on any topic in this forum. I think that for us to have a fairly reasonable discussion, we would need to know each other's understanding of sexual orientation, or whatever other name one attaches to the subject. If (and it's only an if because I don't know your position) you believe that people with same sex attraction have a choice in the matter, we're going to have a really tough time discussing this.

Same-sex relations notwithstanding, for churches to treat being lesbian, gay, or bisexual people as someone with a disease to be cured puts the individuals in question in a no-win situation, and makes God's grace feel just slightly out of reach.

My previous church taught that people choose the homosexual lifestyle for the following three reasons:

1. Rejection or absence of the same-sex parent.
2. Early exposure to pornography.
3. Having been sexually molested.

The same church also refers to reparative therapists, which it claims have a 75% success rate in converting homosexuals into heterosexuals. I find that teaching offensive to the dignity that any human being deserves.

I am interested in what you have to say, but not a point-by-point rebuttal.

Your brother in Christ,

 

[brightmorningstar]

Brian Daniel,
I don’t need a testimony, there are other sections of the forum for that, except to say I am a Christian and constantly battling to live by the Spirit rather than the flesh, don’t all Christians do that?
But for a Christian there is nothing to support such a concept as LGBT people in the Biblical testimony. This is the problem.

I do not wish to debate the morality of same-sex relations,

And there is no debate, the scripture only excludes and condemns them. Such remarks give the impression to casual readers or the new Christian that there is a doubt about it.

you believe that people with same sex attraction have a choice in the matter, we're going to have a really tough time discussing this.

Why? Do I have a choice in having temptations to adulterous thoughts, lying, selfish desires? No. So what is the point of saying we can’t change?
In fact some have changed through the power of Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, at least that’s their testimony and what the NT says. For you to say what you don’t think is only doubting what the Bible says and others testify to.

Same-sex relations notwithstanding, for churches to treat being lesbian, gay, or bisexual people as someone with a disease to be cured puts the individuals in question in a no-win situation, and makes God's grace feel just slightly out of reach.

Sorry but the testimony of God doesn’t recognise LGBT people, it recognises who God has created for His purposes, not for having sexual relations or desires that He did not create them for. He did not create me for adultery, yet I do have adulterous thoughts and have had adulterous temptations.
One has to decided whether one believes the word of God or the thinking based on human feelings, a Christian or an LGBT.

My previous church taught that people choose the homosexual lifestyle for the following three reasons:

1. Rejection or absence of the same-sex parent.
2. Early exposure to pornography.
3. Having been sexually molested.

The same church also refers to reparative therapists, which it claims have a 75% success rate in converting homosexuals into heterosexuals. I find that teaching offensive to the dignity that any human being deserves.

Ok, I would argue your previous church’s views match my experience of homosexual lifestyle as well. There are also plenty of people who want to try reparative therapy, and frankly if people can be encouraged to be homosexual they can be encouraged not to be. But personally I would point out that there is no difference in Christian’s struggle against same sex desires than any other desire that leads to sinful behaviour... and to be delivered is something I am only sure about God being able to do.

 

[Brian Daniel]

That was my introduction, and this is my farewell.

 

[Catherineanne]

That was my introduction, and this is my farewell.

God be with you, Brian.

 

[PaladinValer]

That was my introduction, and this is my farewell.

Despite the reply given to you, I would encourage you to please stay and join us in STR.

Anglicanism has always had a negative light on psuedoscientific concepts like "reparative therapy" and those who do promote it are in a very, very tiny minority. I would even daresay it violates 1.10.

Again, welcome to STR.

 

[gb123]

My name is Brian, and I've started attending a Episcopal Church, and met with a priest today to answer questions I had, and it was quite pleasant. I am a former convert to the RCC, and spent many years in Evangelicalism since leaving the RCC. I feel like I am "wired" more or less for liturgical worship, but I do not believe in the papacy or wish to give any man or person other than Jesus the kind of authority over my life that the Pope had. I have been increasingly become sad with hate (LGBT kids killing themselves because of bullying for instance), and Evangelicalism does not reflect my feelings on that particular issue, and IMO adds more to the problem of hate than it solves.

With that being said, I know there is a wide-range of views within the Anglican Communion on this and other hot-button issues. I am thankful that there is a church where reasonable people can co-exist and have a discussion without questioning one another's salvation or anathematizing each other.

I am fairly conservative theologically, but I have more progressive views in the areas of LGBT people living a Christian life, as well as the role of women in ministry. I am in the process of leaving Evangelicalism, and the church I have attended for the last twelve years, and it is heart-wrenching for me. Thanks in advance for your understanding if I seem like a newbie to the CofE.

Welcome to the Church of England Brian. Or when you do arrive anyway? Don't worry about being new or not knowing something, were all still learning and of course everyone has their own individual views on this forum. Welcome once more!


Oh, just saw that. Bye then!

 

[Brian Daniel]

Despite the reply given to you, I would encourage you to please stay and join us in STR.

Anglicanism has always had a negative light on psuedoscientific concepts like "reparative therapy" and those who do promote it are in a very, very tiny minority. I would even daresay it violates 1.10.

Again, welcome to STR.

I've cooled off, and learned to use some of the features of the board to filter trouble.

I like your little picture PV. How'd you get that? I prayed the rosary today for the first time in 15 years.

Brian

 

[PaladinValer]

It is a bit of a relic from days gone by in CF. Technically, based on your user info, you were around then.

I don't know anymore how to do it, so I'll have to experiment a bit. I will post again once I figure it out.

The rosary is wonderful when tense or frustrated, isn't it?

 

[Brian Daniel]

Yes it is. I still own two rosaries, both of which I made. I used to make large numbers of rosaries to give away. If I were to make some Anglican Rosaries, is there anything construction/design-wise that differs from Marian Rosaries? I noticed no centerpiece, which isn't a problem. Are oval beads good? Would it look right if all the beads were the same size and shape? Is it unheard of to have a centerpiece (I saw a nice looking St. Benedict medal centerpiece)? Are the chains between the groups of beads and the individual beads supposed to be short? I am thinking 5x7mm brown cocoa beads with a brown wood inlaid crucifix would be a nice first one to make. Interested in seeing a pic of one of my rosaries I made back in the early 90's?