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Interpretation...

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Kehaar

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Hello all :wave:

I was wanting to ask about something that I've always had a bit of trouble understanding.

Its something I've heard from friends and mentioned here in another thread in these forums (which reminded me that I'd been meaning to ask! :) ).

Fortune telling/psychic readings/soothsaying etc always seem to be viewed badly by Christian friends I've spoken to (with one exception).....but then how would this be distinguished from the visions so commonly mentioned within the Bible?

I've been told fortune telling etc is associated with witchcraft while the visions of the Bible are obviously not but how is that determined today?

Satan is known by several names - Deciever and Father of Lies......so, theoretically if a fortune teller told you something that came true does that prove anything? Can demons 'tell the truth'?

(and I'm not really looking to get into a messy argument here btw, just trying to get some clarity!)

Thanks,

Astral
 

Beauty4Ashes

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Fortune telling/psychic readings/soothsaying etc always seem to be viewed badly by Christian friends I've spoken to

Deuteronomy 18:10-14
10 "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. 13 "You shall be blameless before the LORD your God. 14 "For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you, the LORD your God has not allowed you to do so.
Isaiah 47:8-15
8 "Now, then, hear this, you sensual one, Who dwells securely, Who says in your heart, "I am, and there is no one besides me. I will not sit as a widow, Nor know loss of children.' 9 "But these two things will come on you suddenly in one day: Loss of children and widowhood. They will come on you in full measure In spite of your many sorceries, In spite of the great power of your spells. 10 "You felt secure in your wickedness and said, "No one sees me,' Your wisdom and your knowledge, they have deluded you; For you have said in your heart, "I am, and there is no one besides me.' 11 "But evil will come on you Which you will not know how to charm away; And disaster will fall on you For which you cannot atone; And destruction about which you do not know Will come on you suddenly. 12 "Stand fast now in your spells And in your many sorceries With which you have labored from your youth; Perhaps you will be able to profit, Perhaps you may cause trembling. 13 "You are wearied with your many counsels; Let now the astrologers, Those who prophesy by the stars, Those who predict by the new moons, Stand up and save you from what will come upon you. 14 "Behold, they have become like stubble, Fire burns them; They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame; There will be no coal to warm by Nor a fire to sit before! 15 "So have those become to you with whom you have labored, Who have trafficked with you from your youth; Each has wandered in his own way; There is none to save you.

Micah 5:4-15
4 And He will arise and shepherd His flock In the strength of the LORD, In the majesty of the name of the LORD His God. And they will remain, Because at that time He will be great To the ends of the earth. 5 This One will be our peace. When the Assyrian invades our land, When he tramples on our citadels, Then we will raise against him Seven shepherds and eight leaders of men. 6 They will shepherd the land of Assyria with the sword, The land of Nimrod at its entrances; And He will deliver us from the Assyrian When he attacks our land And when he tramples our territory. 7 Then the remnant of Jacob Will be among many peoples Like dew from the LORD, Like showers on vegetation Which do not wait for man Or delay for the sons of men. 8 The remnant of Jacob Will be among the nations, Among many peoples Like a lion among the beasts of the forest, Like a young lion among flocks of sheep, Which, if he passes through, Tramples down and tears, And there is none to rescue. 9 Your hand will be lifted up against your adversaries, And all your enemies will be cut off. 10 "It will be in that day," declares the LORD, "That I will cut off your horses from among you And destroy your chariots. 11 "I will also cut off the cities of your land And tear down all your fortifications. 12 "I will cut off sorceries from your hand, And you will have fortune-tellers no more. 13 "I will cut off your carved images And your sacred pillars from among you, So that you will no longer bow down To the work of your hands. 14 "I will root out your Asherim from among you And destroy your cities. 15 "And I will execute vengeance in anger and wrath On the nations which have not obeyed."

II Chronicles 33:1-9
1 MANASSEH was twelve years old when he became king, and he reigned fifty-five years in Jerusalem. 2 He did evil in the sight of the LORD according to the abominations of the nations whom the LORD dispossessed before the sons of Israel. 3 For he rebuilt the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down; he also erected altars for the Baals and made Asherim, and worshiped all the host of heaven and served them. 4 He built altars in the house of the LORD of which the LORD had said, "My name shall be in Jerusalem forever." 5 For he built altars for all the host of heaven in the two courts of the house of the LORD. 6 He made his sons pass through the fire in the valley of Ben-hinnom; and he practiced witchcraft, used divination, practiced sorcery and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him to anger. 7 Then he put the carved image of the idol which he had made in the house of God, of which God had said to David and to Solomon his son, "In this house and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen from all the tribes of Israel, I will put My name forever; 8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers, if only they will observe to do all that I have commanded them according to all the law, the statutes and the ordinances given through Moses." 9 Thus Manasseh misled Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to do more evil than the nations whom the LORD destroyed before the sons of Israel.

Galatians 5:18-21
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 18:23
and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.

Jeremiah 23:26-32
26 "How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart, 27 who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal? 28 "The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?" declares the LORD. 29 "Is not My word like fire?" declares the LORD, "and like a hammer which shatters a rock? 30 "Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," declares the LORD, "who steal My words from each other. 31 "Behold, I am against the prophets," declares the LORD, "who use their tongues and declare, "The Lord declares.' 32 "Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams," declares the LORD, "and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit," declares the LORD.

Jeremiah 14:14-15
14 Then the LORD said to me, "The prophets are prophesying falsehood in My name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility and the deception of their own minds. 15 "Therefore thus says the LORD concerning the prophets who are prophesying in My name, although it was not I who sent them -- yet they keep saying, "There will be no sword or famine in this land' -- by sword and famine those prophets shall meet their end!

Ezekiel 13:17
Now you, son of man, set your face against the daughters of your people who are prophesying from their own inspiration. Prophesy against them

Jeremiah 5:25-31
25 "Your iniquities have turned these away, And your sins have withheld good from you. 26 "For wicked men are found among My people, They watch like fowlers lying in wait; They set a trap, They catch men. 27 "Like a cage full of birds, So their houses are full of deceit; Therefore they have become great and rich. 28 "They are fat, they are sleek, They also excel in deeds of wickedness; They do not plead the cause, The cause of the orphan, that they may prosper; And they do not defend the rights of the poor. 29 "Shall I not punish these people?' declares the LORD, "On a nation such as this Shall I not avenge Myself?' 30 "An appalling and horrible thing Has happened in the land: 31 The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it so! But what will you do at the end of it?

Malachi 3:5-6
5 "Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the orphan, and those who turn aside the alien and do not fear Me," says the LORD of hosts. 6 "For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

sorcerer noun
One who practices sorcery; a wizard.

sorcery noun
Use of supernatural power over others through the assistance of spirits; witchcraft.

witchcraft noun
1. Magic; sorcery.
2. Wicca.
3. A magical or irresistible influence, attraction, or charm.

horoscope noun
1. a. The aspect of the planets and stars at a given moment, such as the moment of a person's birth, used by astrologers. b. A diagram of the signs of the zodiac based on such an aspect.
2. An astrological forecast, as of a person's future, based on a diagram of the aspect of the planets and stars at a given moment.

Satan is known by several names - Deciever and Father of Lies......so, theoretically if a fortune teller told you something that came true does that prove anything? Can demons 'tell the truth'?

" Keep on, then with your magic spells and your many sorceries which you have laboured at since childhood, perhaps you will succeed. Perhaps you will cause terror." Isahiah 47:12

borrowed quote: "The words "cause terror" reveal the mechanism of divination showing that the demonic realm can only manipulate events as they occur for the appearance of credibility, not fore-tell them! By seeking a prediction from a fortune-teller a person is actually consulting the demonic realm and a spirit will attempt to cause the predicted event to happen, turning that person's mind toward false belief and keeping them blind to the truth of God in Jesus Christ. Neither fortune teller nor spirit of divination has the power to see ahead, only deceive and manipulate."

Therefore just because something predicted by spirits not of God comes true does not mean that it's something worth rejoicing over. For example of someone predicts a relationship or wealth to come about in your life and the prediction results in what would seem correct, this does not come from fore knowledge but rather something that has been developed in Satan's scheming pot himself...just enough manipulating of the truth to cause someone to get wrapped up further in the darkness of lies. And any fruit that comes out of whatever was told by the prediction that was not of God, will definately be rotten fruit and will not satisfy.

"If a fortune teller predicts ..
."someone near to you will die, or get sick"
... you will be leaving the consultation followed by a spirit of death, infirmity, madness or murder which will attach to your friends and family because YOU gave it personal authority and liberty by seeking so-called wisdom from a servant of the devil."

"The only way that the future can be known is when God reveals it either through His Word, the Bible, or by the Holy Spirit in revelation prophesy to a servant of Jesus Christ!!!"

sorry for quoting someone I just found their way of putting things better than my own on this particular subject.

"I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times what is to come. I say that My purpose will stand and I will do all that I please" (Isaiah 46:10).

"For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be Holy and Blameless in His sight, In love he predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ" Ephes 1:4

This is what the LORD says, your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb. I am the LORD who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, who foils the signs of false prophets and makes fools of diviners, who overthrows the learning of the wise and turns it into nonsense, who carries out the words of His servants and fulfils the predictions of His messengers" (Isaiah 44:24-26).

if you have more questions about true prophecy and God's revelations through divine knowledge of visions and dreams, I can elaborate on that later.
Gotta go for now

God bless!
 
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Rafael

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I thought to comment about demons using truth. Yes, they can, and the devil quoted scripture to Jesus in the desert when He was fasting and being tried with temptation. Even the serpent in the garden spoke truthfully to Eve, mixing the truth with a lie, as mixing truth with lies is always the most deceiving.

Mat.4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
 
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J.A.I

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B4A ~ Great details :)

Raphe ~ I agree.

AA ~ This is why we, as Christians, should pray for the gift of discernment - the ability to know what is of God and what isn't. There are prophets whom can give you a word from God as I have come across them before. But then there are psychics whom can give you what you want to hear. Sometimes, it is hard to tell which is which, but sweetie, pray to God for wisdom and discernment. And continue to read your Bible so that it will become easier to know what is truth and what is not.

Hope I helped some :)
 
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Theofilus

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astral_acrobat said:
Satan is known by several names - Deciever and Father of Lies......so, theoretically if a fortune teller told you something that came true does that prove anything? Can demons 'tell the truth'?

I read somewhere that the greatest enemy of the truth is not a lie but a half-truth. I believe that demons often (always?) mix just enough truth in their lies to make them believable. So, if a fortune teller tells you somthing that comes true, it doesn't actualy prove anything. In fact, people predict things all the time without the help of either God or demons, for example the winner of the World Series or the outcome of the next presidetial elections. People base their predictions on their knowledge of the matter in question. So can fortune tellers. To know whether someone is speaking from God, from demons or of himself you need to look at "the big picture" and ask a few questions.

What kind of life is he living? Is it consistent with what you would expect of a prophet of God?

What is he teaching? Does the Bible confirm what he says or does it contradict the Bible?

Where does he say he gets his prophecies from? Does he say that it is a talent or power he was born with? Do the spirits of the dead speak to him? Or does he give the glory to God?

Does he want money?True prophecy is a gift from God. Acts 8:18-23 shows what the apostles thought about taking money for such a gift.
 
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