Interfaith Dialogue

[Drunk On Love]

What light does the Bible shed on this enterprise? I'm working on an article on the topic of interfaith dialogue and wanted to read some Christian input. I want the article to discuss it from both a Biblical and Quranic perspective and could use some help with the former.

 

[Faulty]

Here's a couple...

If anyone comes in the Church teaching a foreign gospel, let them be eternally condemned.

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:6-9
​

If one comes teaching another gospel, whoever received and aids them will be held accountable as if they were taking part in their evil.

Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
2 John 1:9-11
​

Keeping the same theme, if some come in the Church, teaching doctrine contrary to what has been taught by the apostles, we are not to listen to them or aid them in any way, but rather avoid them.

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil.
Romans 16:17-19
​

Amos 3, a good example of God punishing His people because they set up alters to other gods, their form of 'interfaith dialogue'. He shows how the Jews came together willingly with other religions, by asking such questions as...

"Do two walk together, unless they have agreed to meet?" Implied "No".
"Does a lion roar in the forest, when he has no prey?" Implied "No".
"Does a young lion cry out from his den, if he has taken nothing?" Implied "No".
"Does a bird fall in a snare on the earth, when there is no trap for it?" Implied "No".
"Does a snare spring up from the ground, when it has taken nothing?" Implied "No".


Then He declares judgment in verses 13 through 15:

“Hear, and testify against the house of Jacob,” declares the Lord God, the God of hosts, “that on the day I punish Israel for his transgressions, I will punish the altars of Bethel, and the horns of the altar shall be cut off and fall to the ground.
I will strike the winter house along with the summer house, and the houses of ivory shall perish, and the great houses shall come to an end,” declares the Lord.
​

The one real God don't take kindly to His people giving heed to false gods. His people are told to reject their gods, and rather teach them concerning the one true God. Not only is it a traitorous thing to seek common ground between the real God and false gods, but it's also the most unloving act we can do. John the Baptist declared that "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him." (John 3:36).

Those who are not forgiven, the wrath of God will remain on them, and if we give them any comfort in letting them think their way to God is also viable, they will likely die in their sins.

There is no common ground to be had. Either it's faith in the finished work of Jesus, His death, burial, and ressurection, for the forgivness of our sins and reconciliation to God, or it's something else completely.

 

[Drunk On Love]

You seem to be looking at interfaith dialogue from the direction of comprise or as a hidden manner of evangelism being perpetrated by another religion. One religion trying to draw Christians away from belief in Christ for example. Assuming those aren't the goals, and that the intent isn't to compromise anything , what input would you find from the Bible on it?

 

[Daniel25]

Whats the point of interfaith dialogue? I guess maybe so we can all gang up against the secular hedonists?


For example, I think passing blasphemy laws (no pictures of Muhammad, no p*sschrist, elephant dung mary, etc) would be a great use of interfaith dialogue!

 

[Drunk On Love]

Whats the point of interfaith dialogue? I guess maybe so we can all gang up against the secular hedonists?

To find new areas of agreement and then coordinate efforts to work for shared goals in those areas. I guess adherents of traditional religions could also work together in a coordinated manner against things viewed as common threats. Issue like abortion, or putting an end to wars for profit, destruction of the Creation God gave us, the growing influence of secular humanism as the defining basis of public action and thought. Religion and the sacred is under attack like never before. It might be nice to work together when we can.

The so called Traditionalist school of thought (Rene Guenon, Frithjof Schoun, Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Martin Lings, Titus Burkhart, Mircea Eliade, Reza Shah Kazemi, Ananda Coomaraswami etc..) has a lot to say in that regard. A united traditional religious opposition to the insane aspects of "modernity".

For example, I think passing blasphemy laws (no pictures of Muhammad, no p*sschrist, elephant dung mary, etc) would be a great use of interfaith dialogue!

I agree with you there!

 

[Daniel25]

well that sounds charming.

 

[GrayAngel]

As long as we're fighting on the same side, I'd gladly lock arms with Muslims to bring an end to abortion. I also don't have a problem with friendly religious debates. Christians are commanded to be prepared to give a defense for their faith, which a challenge for growth.

 

[opengate07]

As far as the problems of the world go we (Man and Woman too) haven't done a very good job up till now so I think the ONLY hope we have is when Jesus returns as King. Man created the mess we are in and no matter what religion, culture or politcal party we will never get it right.
The Faith I hold is not what MAN can do it is what Jesus will do. We had 2000 years to get it right and we are on the verge of destroying ourselves. Sorry , got carried away. I don't even believe I answered the question. If you would like to ask a specific question I would be more than glad to participate and assist you with your article..

 

[Whisper of Hope]

Here's a couple...

If anyone comes in the Church teaching a foreign gospel, let them be eternally condemned.

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:6-9
​

If one comes teaching another gospel, whoever received and aids them will be held accountable as if they were taking part in their evil.

Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
2 John 1:9-11
​

Keeping the same theme, if some come in the Church, teaching doctrine contrary to what has been taught by the apostles, we are not to listen to them or aid them in any way, but rather avoid them.

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil.
Romans 16:17-19
​

Amos 3, a good example of God punishing His people because they set up alters to other gods, their form of 'interfaith dialogue'. He shows how the Jews came together willingly with other religions, by asking such questions as...

"Do two walk together, unless they have agreed to meet?" Implied "No".
"Does a lion roar in the forest, when he has no prey?" Implied "No".
"Does a young lion cry out from his den, if he has taken nothing?" Implied "No".
"Does a bird fall in a snare on the earth, when there is no trap for it?" Implied "No".
"Does a snare spring up from the ground, when it has taken nothing?" Implied "No".


Then He declares judgment in verses 13 through 15:

“Hear, and testify against the house of Jacob,” declares the Lord God, the God of hosts, “that on the day I punish Israel for his transgressions, I will punish the altars of Bethel, and the horns of the altar shall be cut off and fall to the ground.
I will strike the winter house along with the summer house, and the houses of ivory shall perish, and the great houses shall come to an end,” declares the Lord.
​

The one real God don't take kindly to His people giving heed to false gods. His people are told to reject their gods, and rather teach them concerning the one true God. Not only is it a traitorous thing to seek common ground between the real God and false gods, but it's also the most unloving act we can do. John the Baptist declared that "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him." (John 3:36).

Those who are not forgiven, the wrath of God will remain on them, and if we give them any comfort in letting them think their way to God is also viable, they will likely die in their sins.

There is no common ground to be had. Either it's faith in the finished work of Jesus, His death, burial, and ressurection, for the forgivness of our sins and reconciliation to God, or it's something else completely.

What an excellent post! Well done, brother.

 

[razeontherock]

What light does the Bible shed on this enterprise? I'm working on an article on the topic of interfaith dialogue and wanted to read some Christian input. I want the article to discuss it from both a Biblical and Quranic perspective and could use some help with the former.

I hope people don't get too mad at me, but there is some positive light to be found:

"Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. (Acts 17:17) So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, "What does this babbler wish to say?" Others said, "He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities"--because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean." Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new. So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: "Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious.

(v.23) For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, 'To the unknown god.' What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for "'In him we live and move and have our being'; [fn, quoting their own literature] as even some of your own poets have said, "'For we are indeed his offspring.'

Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent"

I think the Church today as well as many here would do well to heed Paul's example of inter-faith dialogue here ...

 

[Drunk On Love]

That was a good selection. Thanks, Razeontherock. Was he quoting a Stoic there because that sounds like a phrase Stoics would use "in him we live move and have our being" ?

 

[aiki]

What light does the Bible shed on this enterprise? I'm working on an article on the topic of interfaith dialogue and wanted to read some Christian input. I want the article to discuss it from both a Biblical and Quranic perspective and could use some help with the former.

There is not a single verse in all of Scripture that urges, or even obliquely suggests, that Christians should connect themselves to false religious systems that have led millions of people into eternal hell. No, instead, as Faulty has pointed out from Scripture, Christians are commanded to utterly avoid any such liaisons.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18
14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?
16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people."
17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."
18 "I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty."

Ephesians 5:8-11
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Selah.

 

[Drunk On Love]

I'm afraid I may have chosen a loaded phrase here that had connotations in other peoples minds that I didn't anticipate. I meant "interfaith dialogue" in a very literal sense. Dialogue that takes place between faiths or at least their representatives. No inherent implication of opening churches to non believers, opening communion between religions, compromising, or watering down, being hinted at with the term as I was trying to use it.

By some of the responses I've received I'm assuming people have run into others using that phrase as a cover for those things? I'll try thinking of a less loaded term to use to describe it and re phrase my question maybe.

 

[razeontherock]

That was a good selection. Thanks, Razeontherock. Was he quoting a Stoic there because that sounds like a phrase Stoics would use "in him we live move and have our being" ?

‘In him we live and move and have our being’: some scholars understand this saying to be based on an earlier saying of Epimenides of Knossos (6th century B.C.). ‘For we too are his offspring’: here Paul is quoting Aratus of Soli, a third-century B.C. poet from Cilicia.



Source: http://www.usccb.org/bible/acts/acts17.htm

 

[Drunk On Love]

Epimenides of Knossos (6th century B.C.)

I just read his wikipedia entry. Found it interesting. He was connected with the founding of Orphism and the Epimenides Paradox which is " All Cretans are Liars". He himself was a Cretan which makes the statement paradoxical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox

 

[razeontherock]

I've heard this saying before, but never knew the full context

 

[Faulty]

(v.23) For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, 'To the unknown god.' What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, for "'In him we live and move and have our being'; [fn, quoting their own literature] as even some of your own poets have said, "'For we are indeed his offspring.'

Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent"

I think the Church today as well as many here would do well to heed Paul's example of inter-faith dialogue here ...

I agree, because Paul summarized with this, and you quoted half of it,

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead
Acts 17:30-31
​

He declared the times when they followed other gods as a time of ignorance of the people, and now it's time to turn from that sin, formed by their imagination, and follow the one true God, because at the end of the road is a judgment of this sin.

That should indeed be our message.

 

[drich0150]

If someone of another faith should have something to say then let it be said and subsequently judged according to the light of scripture.

 

[aiki]

I'm afraid I may have chosen a loaded phrase here that had connotations in other peoples minds that I didn't anticipate. I meant "interfaith dialogue" in a very literal sense. Dialogue that takes place between faiths or at least their representatives. No inherent implication of opening churches to non believers, opening communion between religions, compromising, or watering down, being hinted at with the term as I was trying to use it.

I think interfaith dialogue already happens. For instance, Ravi Zacharias, a prominent Christian speaker and apologist, has been publicly dialoguing with Muslims in their own countries for some time now. Really, though, from a biblical perspective, the only interfaith dialogue that is of any eternal value is one in which Christians share the message of the Gospel with those lost in the darkness of false religions. It makes little sense for me as a Christian to link arms with Muslims against abortion, or war, or the environment while millions of them are thinking they are going to heaven when they are actually going to hell. I ought to be sharing the way of salvation with them, not carrying on in a manner that makes them think I view their religion as something other than the false, eternally-damning thing that it is.

I think, too, that uniting with Muslims to challenge social ills gives the wrong impression, which is that they represent another perfectly legitimate religious path to God. If Jesus truly is "THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life" and "no one can come to the Father but by him," then giving such an impression fosters an attitude and belief that could well lead more people into eternal hell. No Christian should have any part in an enterprise with such a terrible potential.

By some of the responses I've received I'm assuming people have run into others using that phrase as a cover for those things? I'll try thinking of a less loaded term to use to describe it and re phrase my question maybe.

I have heard it said that Islam sees people in one of three ways:

1. A Muslim.
2. An eventual convert to Islam.
3. A defiant infidel to be subjugated and/or destroyed.

Everything I observe about how Islam functions indicates very strongly to me that this is exactly correct. It seems to me, then, that interfaith dialogue with Islam is essentially illusory. There is no such thing as accommodation for, and tolerance of, what is non-Muslim in the grand scheme of Islam. "Dialogue" is a temporary deceit offered by Islam until such time as it is has sufficient strength in a culture to abandon dialogue for force. This can be observed all throughout Europe.

Selah.