Interesting thread

[IXOYE<><]

I found this particlar thread interesting. As it pertains to, my own situation, in a way. Here's the original post http://www.christianforums.com/t1725295

And here, is my response.

1. Do you think Infant Baptism is wrong (eg. Evil and Totally Unbiblical)

There was a time I thought it didn't help. But, I never thought it was evil.

2. Do you think that Baptising your infant will save him/her?

The infant baptism, is only a stepping stone in that person's journey with Christ. he or she must ultimately decide for themselves, which road to take for the rest of their lives.

3. Do you think that Baptising your infant will hinder his/her salvation (eg. later, if they come to a believing faith)?

Boy, this one sure hits close to home! I was infant baptized, got saved at 25 in a protesant church, been a christian for 14 years, and am now taking an interest in Catholicism.

 

[tdcharles]

1. Anyone who says infant baptism is "evil" simply has a wrong understanding of baptism.
2. Salvation is worked out by fear and trembling, not through baptism alone (or faith alone for that matter).
3. No.

 

[Paul S]

Although being baptised does not save by itself, it does restore the grace we lost through Adam's sin. With infants, since they cannnot commit sin until they're older, a baptised child who dies goes directly to heaven.

There is speculation by many theologians, although never officially proclaimed by the Church, that the unbaptised cannot enter heaven. So get your children baptised.

 

[U R my Sonshine]

I found this particlar thread interesting. As it pertains to, my own situation, in a way. Here's the original post http://www.christianforums.com/t1725295

And here, is my response.




There was a time I thought it didn't help. But, I never thought it was evil.



The infant baptism, is only a stepping stone in that person's journey with Christ. he or she must ultimately decide for themselves, which road to take for the rest of their lives.



Boy, this one sure hits close to home! I was infant baptized, got saved at 25 in a protesant church, been a christian for 14 years, and am now taking an interest in Catholicism.

I am kind of like you. I wouldn't call it evil, but not needed until the little child can accept Christ's love and sacrifice. I don't think one can speculate that a child wouldn't enter haven without baptism. Jesus wasn't even bapisted as an infant. Don't get me wrong I think baptsim is a must, after the age of accountability.

Interestingly enough....Acts 8:37 (which is left out of NIV and other translations after KJV) says Phillip says to the Eunich "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest be (baptised). And he says I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God" And so he is baptised.

While this doesn't get around adult baptism being a requirement along with accepting Christ...I think it would cover the babes And since it isn't even stated for sure in doctrine that it is one way or the other....an arguement either way would be nil.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Well, I believe in it, because the Apostles baptised entire households.

Therefore they must have thought the babies needed it.

And if they thought so, I suppose there is a reason. Dont cha think?

 

[Skripper]

Whether or not infants should be baptized was never in dispute in the Christian Church, it was always done, from the beginning of Christianity.The practice of not baptizing babies is a relatively recent innovation.

 

[darby8]

I had my son baptized ASAP after he was born.

 

[Skripper]

I had my son baptized ASAP after he was born.

As well you should.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

I had my son baptized ASAP after he was born.

I can't understand why others wouldn't want their babies not to have the mark of the Holy Spirit upon them!!!
Infant Baptism is so very moving on many levels. it is the continuation of offering your child up to God(others call this dedication)The parents, willfully giving their child to God, just as the jews did, trusting God fully. It is a sign of respect to God to do this.
If others outside of this belief would FULLY look into this better, they would understand.
First, Baby Baptism- christian way of offering our child to God as the Jews did with circumsison.
Second- first Holy Communion- Learning of Jesus' sacrafice for us, the meaning of the Eucharist, the Trinity, etc...
Third- Confirmation- Accepting the full gifts of the faith, a full acceptance of the Holy Spirit to work in our faith, to fully accept the teachings of our faith.

I would rather give this fullness to my child than deny them the gifts throughtout their childhood.... how does this not offend God?

 

[ZooMom]

Wasn't circumcision the sign of the Old Covenant and a male child taken eight days after his birth to be circumcised?

Isn't baptism the sign of the New Covenant?

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Wasn't circumcision the sign of the Old Covenant and a male child taken eight days after his birth to be circumcised?

Isn't baptism the sign of the New Covenant?

Yep!!!

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Saint Peter tells everyone to be baptized:

"Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins."


​

What happenes when we are baptized?

"And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."


​

But to whom is this promise, Saint Peter is making? Just adults?

"The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."


​

Oh, it's to you (adults) and your children!

 

[U R my Sonshine]

I can't understand why others wouldn't want their babies not to have the mark of the Holy Spirit upon them!!!
Infant Baptism is so very moving on many levels. it is the continuation of offering your child up to God(others call this dedication)The parents, willfully giving their child to God, just as the jews did, trusting God fully. It is a sign of respect to God to do this.
If others outside of this belief would FULLY look into this better, they would understand.
First, Baby Baptism- christian way of offering our child to God as the Jews did with circumsison.
Second- first Holy Communion- Learning of Jesus' sacrafice for us, the meaning of the Eucharist, the Trinity, etc...
Third- Confirmation- Accepting the full gifts of the faith, a full acceptance of the Holy Spirit to work in our faith, to fully accept the teachings of our faith.

I would rather give this fullness to my child than deny them the gifts throughtout their childhood.... how does this not offend God?

But to tell a parent that their child will go to hell (yeah I have heard that) if they aren't baptised is flat out lunacy. It cannot be biblically supported on any level. One of you said yourselves that the church isn't even conclusive on this teaching.

Of couse it is a moving gesture and good to dedicate iteh child to God...but let's not assume here

 

[ZooMom]

We aren't assuming anything, Sonshine. The Church teaches that Baptism is efficacious whatever the age or disposition of the recipient as long as form, matter, and intent are proper and present. It isn't just a 'moving gesture' or a dedication. It is a Sacrament, an outward symbol of an inward Grace. Anyone who receives this Sacrament receives also the Grace it conveys and Scripture does not dispute this.

The Church also makes no judgement on the final disposition of any soul, so anyone who claims that unbaptised babies go to hell are severely lacking in charity and trust in God's Mercy. The Church definitely does not teach this. However, in light of the fact that we do not *know*, and in light of the fact that Christ said that one must be born again of water to enter Heaven and to not hinder the children from coming to Him, it is more than prudent to provide this Sacrament for everyone at the earliest possible opportunity.

Peace be with you!

Sandy

 

[Paul S]

But to tell a parent that their child will go to hell (yeah I have heard that) if they aren't baptised is flat out lunacy. It cannot be biblically supported on any level. One of you said yourselves that the church isn't even conclusive on this teaching.

No, it's not. However, "hell" is primarily the absence of God. Physical torment as punishment for one's sins is also present in hell, but children have no sins to be punished for, and so they would not suffer the physical pains.

Adam's sin was enough to deprive every single human being of God's grace forever, and a person who dies without grace cannot go to heaven. Jesus's death on the Cross opened the possibility of grace to be restored to us, but it's not automatic. If God, for whatever reason, chooses to put conditions on this gift, that's His right, just as if your grandfather said "I'll give you a million dollars if you go to medical school." If you choose some other profession, have you lost the million dollars? No, because it was never something owed to you.

Baptism is not merely an outward sign that one believes in God. Rather, it is God's way of making us part of His family and restoring to us the grace that was lost to us through Adam. It takes the grace that Jesus won on the Cross and applies to us individually.

The general opinion of Catholic theologians over the past 2000 years is that the unbaptised cannot go to heaven. It is only in the past few decades, a very short time, that people have backed away from this. It's also in the past few decades that people like to portray God as a warm and fuzzy deity who tolerates all sins, especially if you personally see nothing with [insert favourite sin here]. The theologians have taught that the unbaptised go to Limbo, where they do not suffer punishment, not having personally sinned (or, with adults, having sufficiently repented), and they are happy as far as naturally possible, but without the supernatural grace given by Baptism, they cannot obtain the supernatural reward of Heaven and seeing God face-to-face.

The official teaching of the Church has always been "we don't know." And it remains possible that God can choose to give grace outside the Sacraments, but if so, He has not revealed this to us and so we cannot presume He does so. However, with the great weight of other doctrines and educated speculation all pointing towards the existence of Limbo, it's something I believe. I don't like the idea of babies not being able to go to heaven, but my preferences have absolutely nothing to do with what is true. I would never say you must believe in Limbo, since the Church does not officially teach it, but I do think it would be wrong to completely deny the possibility.

 

[bostonlass]

Boy, this one sure hits close to home! I was infant baptized, got saved at 25 in a protesant church, been a christian for 14 years, and am now taking an interest in Catholicism.

Welcome to OBOB!!!!

There are so many knowledgeable people on this board and although I grew up a cradle Catholic, the more I'm learning that my level of knowledge of Catholicism is soooooooooooooooo down the ladder it's not even funny!!!!

I love how there is so much rich history in our church and I hope you find the same eagerness to learn of it as well.

peace,

bridget

 

[Benedicta00]

Whether or not infants should be baptized was never in dispute in the Christian Church, it was always done, from the beginning of Christianity.The practice of not baptizing babies is a relatively recent innovation.

And I would say not baptizing on purpose is more of a evil.

 

[Benedicta00]

But to tell a parent that their child will go to hell (yeah I have heard that) if they aren't baptised is flat out lunacy. It cannot be biblically supported on any level. One of you said yourselves that the church isn't even conclusive on this teaching.

Of couse it is a moving gesture and good to dedicate iteh child to God...but let's not assume here

The Church doesn’t say that so this point is moot.

If you don’t baptize a baby and the baby should die, how are they saved since according to you, not us, they can not accept Christ?

 

[Epiphanygirl]

We aren't assuming anything, Sonshine. The Church teaches that Baptism is efficacious whatever the age or disposition of the recipient as long as form, matter, and intent are proper and present. It isn't just a 'moving gesture' or a dedication. It is a Sacrament, an outward symbol of an inward Grace. Anyone who receives this Sacrament receives also the Grace it conveys and Scripture does not dispute this.

The Church also makes no judgement on the final disposition of any soul, so anyone who claims that unbaptised babies go to hell are severely lacking in charity and trust in God's Mercy. The Church definitely does not teach this. However, in light of the fact that we do not *know*, and in light of the fact that Christ said that one must be born again of water to enter Heaven and to not hinder the children from coming to Him, it is more than prudent to provide this Sacrament for everyone at the earliest possible opportunity.

Peace be with you!

Sandy

 

[Jamza]

If you read all the instances of Jesus and children in the Bible, do you think Our Lord would let them go to hell for fault of their parents? Not the Jesus I know