Inter-denomination restrictions on communion??!

INRI2 · Aug 28, 2006

There is biblical support for the Trinity where there isn't for many other traditions...that is a key diference

If I give you biblical support will you believe?

INRI2 · Aug 28, 2006

But you have decided that the Catholic is the one person and your decision is based on tradition. Not too firm a foundation. No one church, no one person, has a right to claim it all. We are all in this together, not in the Catholic Church but in Christ. The Catholic Church has not got dibs on Christ or anything else. The Catholic Church is just a church like any other church and that is all. Tradition doesn't cut it. All churches have tradition.

Every Christian accepts the nicene Creed.

"we believe in the one holy catholic and apostolic church"

Every person who is baptised in the name of jesus christ is a catholic, only that some protest against certain doctrines of the Church and/or challenge the authortiy of the chuch leadership, so yes the catholic church is the body of all believers, the body of christ only some members of the body are disjointed.

threeinone · Aug 28, 2006

INRI2 said:
Every Christian accepts the nicene Creed.

"we believe in the one holy catholic and apostolic church"

Every person who is baptised in the name of jesus christ is a catholic, only that some protest against certain doctrines of the Church and/or challenge the authortiy of the chuch leadership, so yes the catholic church is the body of all believers, the body of christ only some members of the body are disjointed.

catholic means christian. Roman Catholic is just Roman Christian. You hide in your one and only church and look out at all the non catholics, non christians. Enjoy yourself and I think I will be a part of the people who believe in Jesus as their Savior. I wish you well as the one and only.

mont974x4 · Aug 28, 2006

INRI2 said:
That is fair enough, its a shame you can not put your faith in the teachings of christ and thus extend that faith to the authorty of the office of St Peter as Christ himself did.

I long for the day when we reach Heaven and we have true unity. I also look at the NT church as being far more unified (altho not perfectly) than we are today.

Obviously We pray that our seperated bretheren return to the bossom of Christ and like lambs be fed by the office of St Peter as Christ commanded Peter to do.

luke 10: 1-16

That was not directed to Peter alone, in fact I don't even see his name there. I would say that applies to all those who work in His name in the harvest.

although the term "pope" is never used there are many passages that show peter was head of the appostles appointed as so by Christ.

Is 22: 20-22 Eliakim Appointed Prime minster of Kingdom of David I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder; what he opens, no one can close; what he closes, no one can open.

This is not Peter either. I would say that is Christ.

Mt 16:18 Peter told he will be the rock upon which Christ will build his eternal Church And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell will not overpower it.

Mt 16:19 Peter Appointed Prime Minister of Kingdom of Christ. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will have been loosed in heaven.

I have already addressed this in an earlier post.

Lk 22:32 - Peters faith will strenghen his bretheren

That is something we should all do, not for a select few.

Jn 21:17 - Cheif shepherd of Christs flock

Christ is the chief preist and chief shepherd, all others are under Him not Peter

Mk 16:7 - angel sent to anounce ressurection to Peter

Lk 24: 34 - Peter first apostle Jesus Appears to after resurection.

Acts 1:13-26 - Peter head of meeting that elected mathias.

Acts 2:14 - Peter leads apostles in preaching at pentecost.

Acts 2:41 - Peter recieves first Converts.

Acts 3:6-7 - Peter preforms first miracle after pentecost.

Acts 5:1-11- Peter inflicts first punishment

Acts 8:21 - Peter excomunicates first heretic (simon magnus)

Looks to me like there was reconciliation in verse 24 when Simon asked them to pray for him.

Acts 10:44-46 Peter is one chosen by Christ to reveal he wants Gentiles admitted into the church.

Acts 15:7 - Peter leads first council in Jeruselem

Acts 15:19 - Peter pronounces first dogmatic decision

Gal 1:18 - Paul after his conversion visits cheif apostle

Mt 10:1-4 - Peters name heads list of apostles, judas is last
Mk 3:16-19 - Peters name heads list of apostles, judas is last
Lk 6:14-16 - Peters name heads list of apostles, judas is last
Acts 1:13 - Peters name heads list of apostles

Lk 9:32 -Peter and his companions
Mk 16:7 - Peter and his companions

Mt 18:21 Peter speaks for apostles
Mk 8:29 Peter speaks for apostles
Lk 8:45 Peter speaks for apostles
Lk 12:41 Peter speaks for apostles
Jn 6:69 Peter speaks for apostles

Peters name occurs 195 time, more than all the rest put together.

None of these point to the need for a pope, only that God used Peters boldness and speaking ability much like He uses our diferent gifts today.

mont974x4 · Aug 28, 2006

Christ is the corner stone.

(Mat 21:42) Jesus saith to them, `Did ye never read in the Writings, A stone that the builders disallowed, it became head of a corner; from the Lord hath this come to pass, and it is wonderful in our eyes.
(Mar 12:10) And this Writing did ye not read: A stone that the builders rejected, it did become the head of a corner:
(Luk 20:17) and he, having looked upon them, said, `What, then, is this that hath been written: A stone that the builders rejected--this became head of a corner?
(Act 4:11) `This is the stone that was set at nought by you--the builders, that became head of a corner;
(Eph 2:20) being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being chief corner- stone ,
(1Pe 2:6) Wherefore, also, it is contained in the Writing: `Lo, I lay in Zion a chief corner-stone, choice, precious, and he who is believing on him may not be put to shame;'
(1Pe 2:7) to you, then, who are believing is the preciousness; and to the unbelieving, a stone that the builders disapproved of, this one did become for the head of a corner,

Christ is our mediator

(Gal 3:19) Why, then, the law? on account of the transgressions it was added, till the seed might come to which the promise hath been made, having been set in order through messengers in the hand of a mediator--
(Gal 3:20) and the mediator is not of one, and God is one--
(1Ti 2:5) for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
(Heb 8:6) and now he hath obtained a more excellent service, how much also of a better covenant is he mediator, which on better promises hath been sanctioned,
(Heb 9:15) And because of this, of a new covenant he is mediator, that, death having come, for redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, those called may receive the promise of the age-during inheritance,
(Heb 12:24) and to a mediator of a new covenant--Jesus, and to blood of sprinkling, speaking better things than that of Abel!

mont974x4 · Aug 28, 2006

God is our only Father and Christ is our Lord, leader, director
Mat 23:8 `And ye--ye may not be called Rabbi, for one is your director--the Christ, and all ye are brethren;
Mat 23:9 and ye may not call any your father on the earth, for one is your Father, who is in the heavens,
Mat 23:10 nor may ye be called directors, for one is your director--the Christ.

mont974x4 · Aug 28, 2006

We are the priesthood

(Luk 1:9) according to the custom of the priesthood, his lot was to make perfume, having gone into the sanctuary of the Lord,
(Heb 7:5) and those, indeed, out of the sons of Levi receiving the priesthood, a command have to take tithes from the people according to the law, that is, their brethren, even though they came forth out of the loins of Abraham;
(Heb 7:11) If indeed, then, perfection were through the Levitical priesthood--for the people under it had received law--what further need, according to the order of Melchisedek, for another priest to arise, and not to be called according to the order of Aaron?
(Heb 7:12) for the priesthood being changed, of necessity also, of the law a change doth come,
(Heb 7:14) for it is evident that out of Judah hath arisen our Lord, in regard to which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
(Heb 7:24) and he, because of his remaining--to the age, hath the priesthood not transient,
(1Pe 2:5) and ye yourselves, as living stones, are built up, a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

(1Pe 2:9) and ye are a choice race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired, that the excellences ye may shew forth of Him who out of darkness did call you to His wondrous light;

INRI2 · Aug 28, 2006

being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being chief corner-stone

Their is a difference between a cornerstone and the foundations, the cornerstone serves as a plaque to show who laid the foundations, Christ is the cornerstone.

We are the priesthood

We are choosen people a holy nation a royal priesthood

I dont dispute that...you make no point!

There is bibilical support for every cause you can bring against the holy catholic church.

None of these point to the need for a pope, only that God used Peters boldness and speaking ability much like He uses our diferent gifts today.

Thats ok, you are entitled to your beliefs, there are non so blind as those who do not want to see, I shake the dust from my feet, I shall not waste any more of my time bringing the word to a hardend heart unready and unwilling to see the light.

catholic means christian. Roman Catholic is just Roman Christian. You hide in your one and only church and look out at all the non catholics, non christians. Enjoy yourself and I think I will be a part of the people who believe in Jesus as their Savior. I wish you well as the one and only.

Threein one you are by your baptism a member of the one holy catholic and apostolic church, you by your baptism are under the care of the cheif apostle who occupys the seat of peter, by your protesting YOU CUT YOURSELF OFF and label YOURSELF protestant to distiguish YOURSELF from the rest of the FLOCK.

I am am not alone in my faith, my faith corrisponds exactly to 1 billion other Catholics because every catholics faith must corrispond with the teaching of the church otherwise they are heretics and are excommunicated from the faith.

However you are entirely alone in your faith, despite 1 billion more Christians labeling themselves protestants, no one has the exact same belief system to you, you have no ROCK by which to moore your ship of faith, you drift with the wind, what you believe today maybe entirely different tomorrow.....I wish you well as the one and only.

mont974x4 · Aug 28, 2006

I'm sorry you feel that way. I was enjoying looking at the Word with you and I did ask to be shown verses. I suspect that we are brother and sister in Him we just have a diferent view of church government. I see no need for a pope or priest when Christ is at the right hand making intercession for us and He alone is our way to the Father.

What is necessary for salvation, in your opinion?

threeinone · Aug 28, 2006

INRI2 said:
T
Threein one you are by your baptism a member of the one holy catholic and apostolic church, you by your baptism are under the care of the cheif apostle who occupys the seat of peter, by your protesting YOU CUT YOURSELF OFF and label YOURSELF protestant to distiguish YOURSELF from the rest of the FLOCK.

I am am not alone in my faith, my faith corrisponds exactly to 1 billion other Catholics because every catholics faith must corrispond with the teaching of the church otherwise they are heretics and are excommunicated from the faith.

However you are entirely alone in your faith, despite 1 billion more Christians labeling themselves protestants, no one has the exact same belief system to you, you have no ROCK by which to moore your ship of faith, you drift with the wind, what you believe today maybe entirely different tomorrow.....I wish you well as the one and only.

You are quite wrong. I have God with me stronger than ever before. I give myself to Him completely and I trust Him implicitly to lead to where I need to be. I ask and He provides. He carried me for many years when my church wanted only my money and my work, what I could do for them. When I was desperate and wanted to die, I could not enter my church because it was always locked so my church became my bedroom and God carried me through desperation to peace and contentment.

I always loved the Catholic tradition and customs and still do. The only true one and only church is the church of God and He and only He owns that church, all His people because the people are the church. When I discovered that the Catholic Church believes that it is the one and only church was about when I started to ask questions and found out that I just did as I was told because that is what the church said I had to do. I was not to think or ask questions, and when I did ask questions, no one would answer me because no one wants the people to know the real truth behind the Catholic church.

I may have cut myself off from the Catholic church but that does not bother me because it's just a bunch of people who think they know everything. But I did not cut myself off from God....the Catholic church does not have a corner on God, no one has. So puff yourself up all you like and puff the Catholic church up all you like because that is all it is... people puffed up. You ought really be ashamed of yourself judging me as you just did with nothing more than some words on an internet.

You are even too unsure of yourself to state you age and position in life. Anyone with such supposed authority as you claim might at least do that.

UnderHisWings4Ever · Aug 28, 2006

To understand the concept of the catholic Church (as opposed to the Roman Catholic Church) you must first explore the meaning of the word catholic, which is quite literally translated 'universal.' The catholic church, as it was orginally intended to be, was the universal Church of Christ, not the Church of Rome which was corrupted severely when it became more of a political power than a spiritual one.

Second, the concept of church as held during the early church (i.e. by Paul and Peter) was not of a large, powerful institution. The church was simply the Body of Christ, which includes ALL believers, not just catholic or protestant or anything else.

Third, even Paul chastised Peter on more than one occasion, proving that even Peter was not infallible, as many catholics would believe the pope to be.

I apologize for getting so off-topic, but I believe that this is an important issue .

UnderHisWings4Ever · Aug 28, 2006

To clarify, when I say 'Church of Christ,' I am in no way referring to the modern denomination. Just don't want there to be any confusion.

mont974x4 · Aug 28, 2006

UnderHisWings4Ever said:
To understand the concept of the catholic Church (as opposed to the Roman Catholic Church) you must first explore the meaning of the word catholic, which is quite literally translated 'universal.' The catholic church, as it was orginally intended to be, was the universal Church of Christ, not the Church of Rome which was corrupted severely when it became more of a political power than a spiritual one.

Second, the concept of church as held during the early church (i.e. by Paul and Peter) was not of a large, powerful institution. The church was simply the Body of Christ, which includes ALL believers, not just catholic or protestant or anything else.

Third, even Paul chastised Peter on more than one occasion, proving that even Peter was not infallible, as many catholics would believe the pope to be.

I apologize for getting so off-topic, but I believe that this is an important issue .

That I can agree with. Thanks for the reminder I usually specify the RCC but got carried away.

threeinone · Aug 28, 2006

UnderHisWings4Ever said:
To understand the concept of the catholic Church (as opposed to the Roman Catholic Church) you must first explore the meaning of the word catholic, which is quite literally translated 'universal.' The catholic church, as it was orginally intended to be, was the universal Church of Christ, not the Church of Rome which was corrupted severely when it became more of a political power than a spiritual one.

Second, the concept of church as held during the early church (i.e. by Paul and Peter) was not of a large, powerful institution. The church was simply the Body of Christ, which includes ALL believers, not just catholic or protestant or anything else.

Third, even Paul chastised Peter on more than one occasion, proving that even Peter was not infallible, as many catholics would believe the pope to be.

I apologize for getting so off-topic, but I believe that this is an important issue .

Thank you for those facts. This is the sort of thing I am interested in....facts....historical facts. Most interesting rather than stuff about a specific church. I was not aware of the facts you gave. Please feel free to go off topic some more......at least from my point of view.

threeinone · Aug 28, 2006

gsmart said:
Ok, so I wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone has ever heard of this, and what they think.

My girlfriend recently has a converstation with a Catholic priest who commented that there was some unwritten rule/understanding that communion is only to be taken if you agree with a church's doctrine. E.g. if your Baptist you only take part in a Baptist communion...

Now, I understand that the Catholic church has "guidelines" dictating that non-Catholics cannot take part in communion (something that baffles me) but as a non-denom/charismatic christian how does this apply? I can only take communion at a non-denom/charismatic church? What if I was to attend a different church (e.g. Alliance), using this rationale I couldn't take part in communion.

Has anyone ever heard of this supposed unwritten rule?
How does this sort of idea jive with non-denoms?

Personally I have a lot of reservations on this. Mainly because of Galatians 3:28:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (NIV)

and for our KJV fans:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

What do you all think of this?

***DISCLAIMER: I'm not bashing Catholics! I just have never heard of this unwritten rule between non-Catholic churches.***

Ah yes, I guess we were off topic somewhat. The OP question was not directed solely at the Catholic church.

I do know that the Roman Catholic church does refuse communion to anyone outside of the church. All I know about the other churches is that I have attended many and received communion without any problem.

So I can only assume that the priest in question was over generalizing as one poster said or just assuming that all churches were the same.

gsmart · Aug 28, 2006

This has been quite the interesting conversation...I leave for the weekend to go fishing (thank goodness God didn't make me a fisherman, I didn't catch a thing!) and the conversation takes off like wildfire. Something I was going to post on Friday, but was unable to was 1 Corinthians 11: 17-33 this passage is rather interesting as it deals with both division in the church and the "requirements" to taking Communion.

1 Corinthians 11: 17-19 said:
In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

First off with this excerpt, I think that it is clear that division in the church is nothing new. If Paul is bringing this up in his letters in the early church, it makes no surprise that there is division in today's church. With the latter part of the excerpt, I am not (and will not) use it to justify one church being right. I think that "church" as a building/religion has many flaws, so many parts may have God's approval, yet just as many may not.

Now while on the thought of "church" it is interesting to see that the original greek for "church" does not solely mean a building or denomination.

(Ekklesia) can mean:

an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating;
1. the assembly of the Israelites;
2. any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously;
3. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly;
4. in a Christian sense:
  1. an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
  2. a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
  3. those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
  4. the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
  5. the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

1 Corinthians 11:27-33 said:
Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment. When we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned with the world.

Now, in reading this passage, I think that the Communion is about being right with God. If your not right with God, then yes, I don't think that one should partake in the Communion. But to say one in unworthy simply because s/he has reservations about the doctrine of the church is in my mind wrong. I mean, if you boil it all down, what we each believe, whether Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Non-denom, etc., is Jesus Christ. We all agree that Jesus died as an atoning sacrifice for our sins, rose three days later and conquered death.

When it comes to the administration of a church and the doctrines that make that church uniquely the "body part" that it is, I agree with others that we should respect the churches "rules". Plus, I do think that it is scriptural.

Romans 13:1 said:
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Hebrews 13:17 said:
Obey your leaders and submitto their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

1 Peter 2:12-14 said:
Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

Now, I can't remember the passage, so it may be slightly out of context, but we are to also "check" that the things that we hear are indeed from God. So then, is denying a brother or sister Communion based on doctrinal differences right with God? I don't feel that it is, but ultimately it's God that we all have to stand in front of and not me and my interpretation.

INRI2 · Aug 29, 2006

I'm sorry you feel that way. I was enjoying looking at the Word with you and I did ask to be shown verses.

You were enjoying arguing with me, your heart is far from ready to accept the truth of Jesus Christ.

You are quite wrong. I have God with me stronger than ever before. I give myself to Him completely and I trust Him implicitly to lead to where I need to be.

Not saying you dont, far from it... I was talking of fellow Christians who share the exact same beliefs as you, no other christian does, the protestant faith by its nature is based on individua interprettion of the bible, something that is condemed by the bible itself. You are alone in what you believe.

To understand the concept of the catholic Church (as opposed to the Roman Catholic Church) you must first explore the meaning of the word catholic, which is quite literally translated 'universal.' The catholic church, as it was orginally intended to be, was the universal Church of Christ, not the Church of Rome which was corrupted severely when it became more of a political power than a spiritual one.

Actually our church is not called Roman Catholic, its Just Catholic, Roman was added After the reformation by protestants. To be fully correct I am Catholic of the latin Rite, while there are others of other rites, such as bizatine, Ambrosian, Bragan, Dominican, Carmelite ect.

The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is not Just Roman Catholic as you put it but the Whole Catholic Church under authority of the Pope.

It is your opinion that the Catholic Church was corruted, I do not dispute that men are fallible and some of them corrupt, but that has been the way since Christ, even then there were members of the apostles who were corrupt (Judas) but it is the faith that is untouched, uncorruptable from men by the protection of the promise of Christ - "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"

I believe his promises both for an eternal church protected from error and the promise of eternal life.

To doubt one is to shed doubt on the other.

Second, the concept of church as held during the early church (i.e. by Paul and Peter) was not of a large, powerful institution. The church was simply the Body of Christ, which includes ALL believers, not just catholic or protestant or anything else.

Well there were no protestants until 1500 AD so obviously it was all believers, however St John the apostle was still alive when the hersey of Gnosticism arrived on the scene, the first Christians to teach different doctrines to the apostles.... lets see what Johns teaching to the early church who were listening to these Gnostics was about these so called Christians.

"They are from the world and therefore the world inspires what they say, and listens to them. WE (apostolic church) ARE FROM GOD ANYONE WHO IS NOT FROM GOD *REFUSES TO LISTEN TO US*......THIS IS HOW YOU CAN DISTINGUISH THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH FROM THE SPIRIT OF FALSEHOOD."

*Whoever listens to you listens to me, whoever rejects you rejects me also*

Your only hope of distinguishing truth from falsehood is by listening to the one hoyl catholic and APOSTOLIC church.

I am interested in....facts....historical facts.

then I suggest you do some history lessons of your own on the Early Church Fathers.

KATHXOYMENOC · Aug 29, 2006

INRI2 said:
Actually our church is not called Roman Catholic, its Just Catholic, Roman was added After the reformation by protestants. To be fully correct I am Catholic of the latin Rite, while there are others of other rites, such as bizatine, Ambrosian, Bragan, Dominican, Carmelite ect.

If you are Catholic, why does your faith icon not display that?

If you are arguing for or debating Catholicism against Protestantism and criticizing Protestant and non-denominational beliefs, why are you doing it in the Non-Denominational Forum?

INRI2 · Aug 29, 2006

If you are Catholic, why does your faith icon not display that?

If you are arguing for or debating Catholicism against Protestantism and criticizing Protestant and non-denominational beliefs, why are you doing it in the Non-Denominational Forum?

Oh so its comes down to this. When all else fails you just tell me to **** off, well I only posted in defence of the catholic faith and in coutesy replyed to posts that addressed me, my posts or or the catholic faith.

As for my faith Icon, do you say Catholics are not Christian?

Lynn73 · Aug 29, 2006

talitha said:
I was brought up in a Methodist church, and they practiced open communion. My non-denominational church that I attend now also practices open communion. Some Baptist churches do, some do not. The rules vary widely. I usually inquire about the rules before presuming to take communion in a church I visit. The priest was way over-generalizing, or he was simply assuming.

blessings
tal

Our church also has open communion, the only requirement being that one is a believer in Christ. I don't know why anyone would want to participate in Catholic communion if they don't believe in transubstantiation. I wouldn't.

Inter-denomination restrictions on communion??!

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