Intelligent Design's research impact on science

[OldWiseGuy]

Prior to the introduction of antibiotics, the black plague had an extremely high mortality rate. There is a reason it wiped out approximately half of Europe's population in the 1300's.

Do you see any plagues today wiping out half of the population?

We just have different problems today.

Perhaps if we didn't have as many anti-science types as we do, maybe that would have been the case.

I'm not against science, but science is too often self-serving in the commercial sense. We are often the victims of it rather than beneficiaries.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Perhaps if we didn't have as many anti-science types as we do, maybe that would have been the case.

"Anyone who doesn't believe evolution is a fact, is anti-science."

Thanks, almost forgot, so I hadn't added that to my list of overly used, non defenses for evolution. Feel free to make any changes before I enter it.

 

[Ophiolite]

You clearly haven't been appraising my posts very carefully. I usually include a subtle invitation for deeper discussion (sometimes called trolling), which is always ignored by the respondent. Although this is common to all who suggest a better way here.

You clearly haven't been writing your posts very carefully. If the "invitation" is always ignored then it is likely because it is not evident to the reader. Refer to the second item in my signature for a fuller explanation. (Summary: it's your fault. Start taking responsibility.)

 

[pitabread]

We just have different problems today.

Nobody said there aren't problems to solve. It's just that by all sorts of metrics, we're much better off today than at any time in previous human history.

I'm not against science, but science is too often self-serving in the commercial sense. We are often the victims of it rather than beneficiaries.

What do you mean by "self-serving in the commercial sense"?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You clearly haven't been writing your posts very carefully. If the "invitation" is always ignored then it is likely because it is not evident to the reader. Refer to the second item in my signature for a fuller explanation. (Summary: it's your fault. Start taking responsibility.)

You need to review my whole body of work here.

 

[pitabread]

"Anyone who doesn't believe evolution is a fact, is anti-science."

Thanks, almost forgot, so I hadn't added that to my list of overly used, non defenses for evolution. Feel free to make any changes before I enter it.

This has nothing to do with a defense of evolution. It's simply a fact that there are segments of the population that oppose various types of science. This includes everything from medical science to climate science to modern biology, geology, astronomy, you name it.

If you want a prime example, just look at anti-vaccination movements and the consequences of outbreaks of preventable disease.

There are also political consequences behind this opposition. The current Trump administration's approach to ignoring scientists and the muzzling of various scientific institutions (via censorship) is a prime example of that.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Nobody said there aren't problems to solve. It's just that by all sorts of metrics, we're much better off today than at any time in previous human history.[/QUOTE]

It doesn't help to compare today to the middle ages. I'm saying that we should be able to do better, and there's no good reason why we aren't.

What do you mean by "self-serving in the commercial sense

Science has turned their inventions over to the business community, so that only some of us can afford them. Look at medical costs for example.

 

[Ophiolite]

You need to review my whole body of work here.

No, mate. I really don't. One liners are effective for stand up comedians. When they are the only output of a Forum Philosopher they are as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

 

[pitabread]

It doesn't help to compare today to the middle ages. I'm saying that we should be able to do better, and there's no good reason why we aren't.

Sure, we can do better. If you want to find out why we're not, then you need to examine the specific problems and what is impeding process in those areas. Often times there are a multitude of factors (political, economic, technology).

Science has turned their inventions over to the business community, so that only some of us can afford them. Look at medical costs for example.

Healthcare in America is a political issue. The rest of the Western world has already figured out socialized health insurance. It's about time America catches up.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

No, mate. I really don't. One liners are effective for stand up comedians. When they are the only output of a Forum Philosopher they are as sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

Often one-liners are all that is needed. The death penalty for example...solves a lot of problems without the need for lengthy discussion.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Sure, we can do better. If you want to find out why we're not, then you need to examine the specific problems and what is impeding process in those areas. Often times there are a multitude of factors (political, economic, technology).

Those are common excuses. Inaction is mostly laziness, ignorance, or selfishness.

Healthcare in America is a political issue. The rest of the Western world has already figured out socialized health insurance. It's about time America catches up.

It's an economic issue that's been politicized, as are many problems.

 

[Kenny'sID]

This has nothing to do with a defense of evolution. It's simply a fact that there are segments of the population that oppose various types of science.

You just changed your comment substantially, from science, period, to various types. Who was it that just said to learn to take some responsibility?

Not to mention, that has nothing to do with opposing science itself, but the conclusions drawn using a process we refer to as science, however wrong or right.

People conclude. science does not.

 

[Ophiolite]

Often one-liners are all that is needed. The death penalty for example...solves a lot of problems without the need for lengthy discussion.

The traditional coward's way of dealing with difficult issues. I'm done here.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The traditional coward's way of dealing with difficult issues. I'm done here.

I simplify difficult issues. That's what I do.

 

[Jimmy D]

Does every thread have to descend into this tedious meta-debate crap?

Have IDers really got so little to contribute?

It’s very telling.

 

[pitabread]

Does every thread have to descend into this tedious meta-debate crap?

Have IDers really got so little to contribute?

It’s very telling.

In fairness the ID movement is still predominantly political, so it's not all that surprising.

 

[Jimmy D]

Discussing the political issues would be relevant, if not directly pertinent to the op, instead every thread gets derailed with this same garbage.

Eg...

It doesn't help to compare today to the middle ages. I'm saying that we should be able to do better, and there's no good reason why we aren't.

"Anyone who doesn't believe evolution is a fact, is anti-science."

Thanks, almost forgot, so I hadn't added that to my list of overly used, non defenses for evolution. Feel free to make any changes before I enter it.

 

[Ophiolite]

Discussing the political issues would be relevant, if not directly pertinent to the op, instead every thread gets derailed with this same garbage.

When posts are driven exclusively by an agenda then this is the natural outcome. Now, I think many of us who share your view on the character of the "garbage" also have an agenda. It likely reads "I'm here to have an interesting discussion, be exposed to alternate viewpoints, learn new things and share my own knowledge, correcting errors where necessary all within a framework set out by the content of the OP."

Unfortunately, as you have noted, some posts use the OP as an excuse to call up a scratchy 45 vinyl record (or even a 78 acetate) and then many of us go into error correction mode.

Are we to blame? Are "they" to blame? It can't be a lack of appropriate moderation, as members are not allowed to criticise that in thread, so it must be something else. However, I'm quite discombobulated and have no idea what it might actually be.

 

[Jimmy D]

When posts are driven exclusively by an agenda then this is the natural outcome. Now, I think many of us who share your view on the character of the "garbage" also have an agenda. It likely reads "I'm here to have an interesting discussion, be exposed to alternate viewpoints, learn new things and share my own knowledge, correcting errors where necessary all within a framework set out by the content of the OP."

Unfortunately, as you have noted, some posts use the OP as an excuse to call up a scratchy 45 vinyl record (or even a 78 acetate) and then many of us go into error correction mode.

Are we to blame? Are "they" to blame? It can't be a lack of appropriate moderation, as members are not allowed to criticise that in thread, so it must be something else. However, I'm quite discombobulated and have no idea what it might actually be.

All too true.

I realise the irony in the fact that I too have gone off topic and am engaging in the kind of meta debate I was moaning about... so I’ll just shut up now.

Sorry about that.

 

[Ophiolite]

All too true.

I realise the irony in the fact that I too have gone off topic and am engaging in the kind of meta debate I was moaning about... so I’ll just shut up now.

Sorry about that.

Well, it made more sense and seemed more interesting than whatever it was we were meant to be discussing. Let me look.. . . . . . .Ah, Intelligent Design's Impact on Science. That explains it. No impact, so time to change the subject!