Intelligent Design

[lasthero]

not expect to find human or giraffe bones in a fossil layer with deep sea

Why not? Humans and giraffes drown all the time. It wouldn't be common, but there's nothin about your idea that makes it impossible.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Scientists don't draw pictures. You should read the literature.

Actually, some of the better artists do have some scientific background, and most of the decent ones work to some extent with professionals to try to make their renditions more accurate. They just tend to focus more on the plants and animals rather than environment details.

 

[DogmaHunter]

In order ---------------

1. Prove plagiarism .

Any seminare of Kent Hovind will include a powerpoint slide with exactly those texts about the semantic nonsense of the different types of "evolution". I'm sure you saw some of them (and even were impressed).

3. The SETI program seems to believe it can determine a message from alien intelligence , and it most likely would not be in English. The U.S. Gov. has spent billions on this SETI Program convinced that some sort of a message would be determined as such if it occurred.

SETI doesn't look for "messages". It looks for signals that represent anomalies. If it finds such an anomaly, they don't automatically assume it comes from aliens.

5 . What if you didn't see the Builder of your house ; would you then blow it off to natural causes ?

We know what houses are. We know how they come about. This doesn't work as an analogy.

6. Selection from WHAT ?

From what is alive and exists.

A non intelligent source / material source / naturally to cause something to be constructed in a very very narrow precise way ???

It's neither narrow nore precise in reality. It's rather just "what works".
The human eye, oftenly pointed to as some kind of amazing camera, actually bears the evidence of the "blind" tinkering of evolution. If it was done by an actual sentient entity, then it fits the "i fixed it!" pages of the interwebs.

Nerves having to cross the retina, all the wires in front of the light sensitive cells, the brain requiring functions to "fill in the blanks" to correct for these faulty hardware constructs, etc....

Such things are exactly the kind of things we would expect from a natural process like evolution. It is the opposite of what we would expect from some all-knowing, all-powerfull and perfect engineer.

And that is, off course, just one example. The biological landscape is overflowing with such "tinkering" and "i fixed it!" nonsense. It's what we expect from a process that introduces cumulative changes.

 

[DogmaHunter]

All the species you should expect to see are there in the ground.

So where are all the modern fish and other sea creatures in those fossil layers then?

I would not expect to find human or giraffe bones in a fossil layer with deep sea animals and we don't.

So in which geological layer would you expect to find mammals?

The earth was not the same before the flood. It was very different.

How do you know? What is your evidence of this? How do we test that?

How should I know?

Errr.... You claimed it happened? Are you just throwing around unsupportable assertions, then?

 

[EternalDragon]

So where are all the modern fish and other sea creatures in those fossil layers then?

So in which geological layer would you expect to find mammals?

How do you know? What is your evidence of this? How do we test that?

Errr.... You claimed it happened? Are you just throwing around unsupportable assertions, then?

Modern fish as in what we have today? If you don't micromanage all the
layers into millions of years, they are found there and on up into the
Devonian.

The evolution of fish began about 530 million years ago during the Cambrian explosion.

Evolution of fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://listverse.com/2010/05/14/top-10-prehistoric-fish-alive-today/

Mammals are also found in the earth. Along with everything else. But obviously not with fish and deep sea creatures. Do you suppose it was a quick burial or a slow one?

 

[DerelictJunction]

Modern fish as in what we have today? If you don't micromanage all the
layers into millions of years, they are found there and on up into the
Devonian.

The evolution of fish began about 530 million years ago during the Cambrian explosion.

Evolution of fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Top 10 Prehistoric Fish Alive Today - Listverse

Mammals are also found in the earth. Along with everything else. But obviously not with fish and deep sea creatures. Do you suppose it was a quick burial or a slow one?

If modern fish were closer to the ocean surface and then died wouldn't they have sunk to the "Cambrian" depths?
What about whales?

You also haven't addressed the concept that living on the ocean floor doesn't necessarily equate to living in the deep ocean depths. Coral reefs are on the ocean floor.

 

[lasthero]

And, just to tack on, you still haven't given a reason why everything we find in the Cambrian layers dates to about 500 million years.

Seriously. What is about things from the deep death at makes them measure like that? Why do we find younger and younger dates as we go up in the column if they're just different locations from the same time? You don't think that's a little bit odd?

 

[Split Rock]

a. So, I took some information from Behe's Book and listed it. Most of what People espouse they've read somewhere / they've learned in school from Books / or were told by an Authority ... yet they don't reference the specific source . I posted some facts for the edification of the Reader -- how about you focus on the factual information given ?.

Go ahead and use info from another source if you like. However, if you do so and don't tell us where you got it from, we will have to assume you are taking credit for someone else's work. Generally, posters here will either provide a citation or a weblink.

b. The SETI purpose is based on Human Beings being able to recognize and gather information in the form of a message from the Cosmos which would mean FROM an intelligent source ; how much more for DNA digital informational messages as a blueprint ?

I am very skeptical that SETI can accomplish the task it has set. There is no guarantee that they would recognize an intelligent source even if they found one. There is also the possibility of finding a unique source and mistaking it for an intelligent source when it is a natural phenomenon (perhaps a rare one). The fact that they have so far found nothing at all, doesn't help your argument any.

c. Are you familiar with digital information technology at least on a fundamental level ?

I am no expert on information theory, but I do know it has often been misapplied by I.D. advocates here.

d. You know that a House required a Builder . Why ? If the Universe could be slapped together using materials naturally, why couldn't a House given enough time, change, pile of materials, and natural occurences ?

I know a house requires a builder because I know what houses are and where they come from.

e.
DNA has two types of digital information:

1. The genes that encode proteins, which
are the molecular machines of life,
....and....
2. The gene regulatory networks that
specify the behaviour of the genes.
The digital code of DNA : Abstract : Nature


Now here is the question................


What is the SOURCE of digitalized
information?


1. Naturalistic only?


.....OR....


2. From an intelligent causation

Why not both? Why is the default position "intelligent causation?"

 

[Split Rock]

I am not claiming that.

Then what are you claiming, because now you have me confused.

Lets try again: Why are the fossilized organisms found in Cambrian rocks so different from what we find today in similar environments?

All the species you should expect to see are there in the ground. I would not expect to find human or giraffe bones in a fossil layer with deep sea
animals and we don't.

I never claimed that a human or giraffe should be found in Cambrian rocks. I said that lobsters, crabs, fish, eels, shrimp, gastropods, and fish should. Now why aren't they there??

The earth was not the same before the flood. It was very different.

Then tell us where the lobsters, crabs, fish, eels, shrimp, gastropods, and fish we see today came from.

 

[Split Rock]

Modern fish as in what we have today? If you don't micromanage all the
layers into millions of years, they are found there and on up into the
Devonian.

The evolution of fish began about 530 million years ago during the Cambrian explosion.

Evolution of fish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Top 10 Prehistoric Fish Alive Today - Listverse

Mammals are also found in the earth. Along with everything else. But obviously not with fish and deep sea creatures. Do you suppose it was a quick burial or a slow one?

Primitive chordates which were the ancestors of fish are indeed found in some Cambrian rocks, but not fish themselves. Do you not actually read the links you post here? Most of the types of fish your last link shows are from the time of the dinosaurs, NOT the Cambrian!

 

[bhsmte]

Primitive chordates which were the ancestors of fish are indeed found in some Cambrian rocks, but not fish themselves. Do you not actually read the links you post here? Most of the types of fish your last link shows are from the time of the dinosaurs, NOT the Cambrian!

The ED shuffle, is always entertaining to watch.