Intelligent Design

[Meatros]

I've been reading and participating in online discussions about evolution/creationism/intelligent design/etc for a few years now and one thing that has never been answered in any satisfactory way is how the intelligent designer added/created the irreducibly complex 'piece'.

Now, since intelligent design claims to be science, I think this is a fairly important step in the process. Using IDer standards, why do some creatures have intelligently designed parts and others do not? That is, why do only a few structures have irreducibly complex parts?

Furthermore, what can we infer about the designer itself? If this designer created life from the beginning, but has to continually 'adjust' it's creation, then it must not be very intelligent. Granted, it'd still be more intelligent then us, but how can someone say that intelligent design promotes an omniscient God? If anything I'd think the very fact that intelligent design promotes a designer that has to continually fix or update it's creation suggests that life did not come from an omniscient/omnipotent God.

In any event, since it proclaims to be science, I'd like to know how exactly the intelligent designer 'updates' it's creations to make them irreducibly complex. Specifics please, and remember, it's supposed to be science, so no relying on miracles.

Thanks

 

[billwald]

The space aliens who seeded this planet used some preexisting designs and made some from scratch.

 

[Mistermystery]

Since it can not be tested, I fail to see how ID is science...

 

[gimlisgrl]

There are 2 types of evolution, micro and macro. Micro is within a species example is the many different breeds of dog. Macro is out of species like a cow coming from a whale.
Micro could account for some of the more recent changes in animal breeds such as we as humans are getting taller and our jaws are getting smaller (thus wisdom teeth needing to be removed in many people). This could just be nature adapting not God or another being changing things. We put on clothes in the winter but this is not God ordained, just an adaptation.

 

[caravelair]

There are 2 types of evolution, micro and macro. Micro is within a species example is the many different breeds of dog.

but we have also observed new species forming through evolution. macroevolution.

 

[Randall McNally]

Macro is out of species like a cow coming from a whale.

This is not now, nor will it ever be anything resembling evolution as understood by scientists for at least the last century. Such an occurrence would, in fact, stand evolution on its ear.

 

[Tomk80]

Macro is out of species like a cow coming from a whale.

So ring species would be a form of macro evolution?

 

[billwald]

The problem with ID is that it is a dead end. It's only purpose is to "prove" that the rest of us are wrong. Once everyone is convinced that God "Poofs" everthing, then what? Pray for God to poof new stuff?

 

[Mistermystery]

There are 2 types of evolution, micro and macro. Micro is within a species example is the many different breeds of dog. Macro is out of species like a cow coming from a whale.
Micro could account for some of the more recent changes in animal breeds such as we as humans are getting taller and our jaws are getting smaller (thus wisdom teeth needing to be removed in many people). This could just be nature adapting not God or another being changing things. We put on clothes in the winter but this is not God ordained, just an adaptation.

Girl, don't talk about things you know nothing about. I seriously suggest that you read up on Evolution instead of parroting from mr. Hovind.

 

[Meatros]

There are 2 types of evolution, micro and macro. Micro is within a species example is the many different breeds of dog. Macro is out of species like a cow coming from a whale.
Micro could account for some of the more recent changes in animal breeds such as we as humans are getting taller and our jaws are getting smaller (thus wisdom teeth needing to be removed in many people). This could just be nature adapting not God or another being changing things. We put on clothes in the winter but this is not God ordained, just an adaptation.

Changing the subject to a ridiculous strawman are you?

Please reread the OP and answer my question if you can.

Thanks,

 

[Cantuar]

Well, Meatros, at least she's identified the Intelligent Designer. It would appear to be the Christian God. WHAT a surprise.

 

[aziel92]

One of your statements was that their are relatively few irreducibly complex structures. this simply is false. On a molecular level, nearly all bacterial genes are irreducibly complex. For instance, the Lac operon, tryp operon, gal operon, etc.... The Lac operon contains several parts (protiens and DNA) in order for it to function. It has an inducer, repressor, cAMP and CRP which all interact with the DNA JUST for control of the gene! It becomes even more complicated when you add on what the gene produces for its function (lactose metabolism). Almost everything in our biochemistry requires a set of macromolecules and molecules interacting to do their function. Multiply this by the cells and the tissues and the organs with which these macromolecules make and the result is one very integrated and well tuned organism with millions of separate entities working together to perform basic life functions.

 

[Meatros]

Why is it that if we don't know how something evolved currently, it must be irreducibly complex?

I mean, this sort of thinking got Behe in trouble with blood clotting and the flaggelum (sP?) IIRC.

In any event Aziel, can you now answer the rest of my questions?

 

[caravelair]

One of your statements was that their are relatively few irreducibly complex structures. this simply is false. On a molecular level, nearly all bacterial genes are irreducibly complex. For instance, the Lac operon, tryp operon, gal operon, etc.... The Lac operon contains several parts (protiens and DNA) in order for it to function. It has an inducer, repressor, cAMP and CRP which all interact with the DNA JUST for control of the gene! It becomes even more complicated when you add on what the gene produces for its function (lactose metabolism). Almost everything in our biochemistry requires a set of macromolecules and molecules interacting to do their function. Multiply this by the cells and the tissues and the organs with which these macromolecules make and the result is one very integrated and well tuned organism with millions of separate entities working together to perform basic life functions.

but even if they are "irreducibly complex" that doesn't mean they couldn't have evolved. IC =/= unevolveable. look, we have directly observed the evolution of an IC system quite similar to the ones you are talking about:

http://biocrs.biomed.brown.edu/Darwin/DI/Parts-is-Parts.html

since we have observed such a thing evolving, it would be quite silly to suggest that IC disproves evolution.