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Intelligent Design - another failure

T

The Bellman

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The latest strategy by creationists to force their religious beliefs on all is known as "Intelligent Design" (or "ID"). Basically, it states that organisms are too complex to have evolved via evolutionary theory, and therefore must have been created by an intelligent designer. Although the idea does not state it explicitly, this intelligent designer is, of course, the christian god.

Unlike normal creationist efforts, intelligent design is not overtly christian. Although clearly religious in origin, it does not draw upon scripture as evidence, instead presenting itself as a purely science-based idea. For this reason, it is known as "ID theory". While it is, of course, a theory in the general sense of the world, it seeks to legitimise itself by blurring the line between the general meaning of the word and the scientific meaning. While it is a 'theory' in the general meaning of the word, it is not a scientific theory, because it:

- does not explain any facts or phenomena,
- has not been tested,
- is not widely accepted, and
- cannot be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

However, since it claims to stand upon scientific, rather than religious grounds, it can and should be refuted on those same purely scientific grounds. Fortunately, this is rather easy to do:

- ID claims that evolutionary theory cannot account for the coming into being of certain organisms. However, the organisms cited can, in fact, be accounted for quite easily by modern evolutionary theory.

- ID claims that because evolutionary theory cannot explain the origin of (some) organisms, they were therefore created by an intelligent designer. Even granting (for the purposes of argument) that evolutionary theory cannot explain the origin of some organisms, this does not take into account the possibility that advances in evolutionary theory or other sciences will discover a natural method by which these organisms could have come into existence.

- ID is self-fulfilling. As soon as we point to a specific phenomena and cite an intelligent designer to explain it (because naturalistic science cannot), no further efforts will be made to discover the naturalistic causes of the phenomena (since it has been established that an intelligent designer created it). Thus the phenomena will always be held to be evidence for an intelligent designer, fulfilling itself.

- ID is limiting. If ID were the governing paradigm, humanity would never have discovered anything about the natural world. Every phenomena for which there was not an instantly available natural explanation (such as rain) would have been labelled "too complex to happen via naturalistic causes" (since our knowledge of natural causes was extremely limited) and, therefore, intelligently designed. Research into those naturalistic causes would never have taken place.

- ID cannot propose any objective criteria for what is "too complex to have happened via naturalistic causes". In the end, their claims always come down to "I think that organism is too complex...therefore, it was created by an intelligent designer." There is - and can be - no objective criteria.

Apart from the above scientific reasons, ID is also rather bad theologically. It uses the "god of the gaps" argument..."god exists because of these phenomena which we cannot explain without postulating a god." As soon as, through scientific advances, we CAN explain the phenomena in question, another reason to believe in god's existence ceases to be. The "god of the gaps" has long been recognised to be bad theology.

So another creationist effort is seen for what it is - unscientific and clearly designed to allow religious beliefs to become permissible scientific explanations. Fortunately, it is rather easily seen to be religiously-inspired, and can - and will - be ranked with other creationist strategies, as a religious belief, not a scientific one, which is unsupported and unsupportable by science.
 
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Aggie

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In general, arguments from ignorance don't work very well. They assume that because someone doesn't understand something, this thing CAN'T be understood. But it's usually just because the person who doesn't understand it doesn't have enough information.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"... I'm not sure who originally said that.
 
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Beleg_Strongbow

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Well put. When people see the complexity of life, it is very tempting to say, "wow, this is so amazing, it had to be designed." But you're right, people said that about many now-explained events in the past. People should always strive towards knowledge and understanding, not immediately say "goddidit" to everything we find puzzling.

For me, the greatest evidence against ID is here: http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm

I'm curious to see what IDers think about some of the animals described in the link.
 
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Osiris

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ThePhoenix said:
Eh, that's the worst arguement I ever heard. No wing could possibly lift us off the ground. Ergo, no wings!

God could have intelligently designed wings that could have lifted us up. Ergo wings!
Going by your way of thinking, if there is a God, he doesn't design us himself, but rather lets evolution design us (unintelligently/random). Because we didn't need wings, we don't have wings.
 
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Beleg_Strongbow

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all are biased beyond recognition but most of those are merely useless, off topic, wrong or otherwise questionable. a few are interesting, pointing towards evolution but not necessarily away from ID. not that i believe in ID.

Proof, please?
 
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Light in the Darkness

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The Bellman said:
ID claims that evolutionary theory cannot account for the coming into being of certain organisms. However, the organisms cited can, in fact, be accounted for quite easily by modern evolutionary theory.
Interesting thought:

If an organism can be easily accounted for using the theory of evolution, then does ID conclude that it must not be made by a deity?
 
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Jimmy The Hand

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I'm going to go out on a limb but I think that if an "irreducibly complex" organism was shown to be created through evolutionary processes (which has been done) then IDers would have to say that ID has been falsified (which it has been). At least that's Dembski's viewpoint. But just because you falsify ID has no bearing on whether a diety is involved prior. God can't be falsified because it's untestable.
 
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mythbuster

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quote edited by moi.

This statement is utterly false. ID theory has nothing to say about the designer (or designers.) Nothing. ID theory can only make the claim that some object is the product of design. No more no less.

According to Dembski, who spoke last night at the Biola ID conference, ID theory has been picked up by Buddists, and probably will be picked up by Moslims.
 
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Hydra009

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mythbuster said:
ID theory has nothing to say about the designer (or designers.) Nothing. ID theory can only make the claim that some object is the product of design. No more no less.
The "intelligent designer" is just another word for God. It's still an attempt to camoflauge biblical literalism as science by imbuing it with scientific-sounding wording.
 
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MSBS

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Irish_Guevara said:
The "intelligent designer" is just another word for God. It's still an attempt to camoflauge biblical literalism as science by imbuing it with scientific-sounding wording.
Perhaps initially and by those who are the "leading lights" of ID, but you forget about unintended consequences. Anyone is able to pick it up, so we already see some Muslims using it, but I think we'll see a lot more new agers, UFO believers (the intellegence behind the design could of been little green men from mars after all, right?), and others from fundamentalists religions jumping on to the band wagon. Kinda like these guys--

http://www.rael.org/english/index.html

who seem to mix up just about all of the nuttiness you could ever want in to one package. A sort of UFO new age athiestic intellegent design cult.
 
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