Instructive Comparisons...

[WAB]

INSTRUCTIVE COMPARISONS #1
​

In reference to: HOLINESS…​

Romans 6:19... “I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.”
2 Corinthians 7:1.… “Therefore, having these promises beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

1 Peter 1:15... “…as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct.”

In reference to: REDEMPTION…
​

Ephesians 1:7... “In Him (Jesus Christ, vs.3) we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.”

1 Peter 1:18,19.… “Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

In reference to: THE NEED FOR BABES IN CHRIST TO BE FED WITH MILK…
​

1 Corinthians 3:1,2... “And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able.”

1 Peter 2:1,2... “Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby.”

The above comparisons (as you are no doubt aware) are between what Paul wrote, and what Peter wrote, and their teaching is identical. (All references are from the NKJV).
We have been inundated in this area of the forums with declarations that Peter did not preach/teach the same gospel as Paul did; nor in the view of some, was Peter a member of the Church/Body-of-Christ. An un-biased reading of the Scriptures will show that position to be absolutely anti-Biblical. More to come….

Shalom… WAB

 

[Dispy]

INSTRUCTIVE COMPARISONS #1
​

In reference to: HOLINESS…​

Romans 6:19... “I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.”
2 Corinthians 7:1.… “Therefore, having these promises beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

1 Peter 1:15... “…as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct.”

In reference to: REDEMPTION…
​

Ephesians 1:7... “In Him (Jesus Christ, vs.3) we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.”

1 Peter 1:18,19.… “Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.”

In reference to: THE NEED FOR BABES IN CHRIST TO BE FED WITH MILK…
​

1 Corinthians 3:1,2... “And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able.”

1 Peter 2:1,2... “Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby.”

The above comparisons (as you are no doubt aware) are between what Paul wrote, and what Peter wrote, and their teaching is identical. (All references are from the NKJV).
We have been inundated in this area of the forums with declarations that Peter did not preach/teach the same gospel as Paul did; nor in the view of some, was Peter a member of the Church/Body-of-Christ. An un-biased reading of the Scriptures will show that position to be absolutely anti-Biblical. More to come….

Shalom… WAB

I have no problem with both Peter and Paul's instructions to their listeners as to their Christian walk. A believers walk, in any dispensation, should be that of following Ggod's instruction at that point in time of human history.

Peter preached "The Gospel of the Kingdom," which was to be established upon the earth. Paul preached "The Gospel of the Grace of God." The Gospel of the Kingdom had to do with Jesus confirming/fulfilling the promises to the Jewish fathers (Romans 15:8), a kingdom here upon the earth. Paul's preaching of The Gospel of the Grace of God," had to do with Israel's rejection of those promises, by rejecting the One who was to fulfill them. Paul NEVER promises us a place in the earthly kingdom, however, the members of The Body of Christ are to have a place in heaven "to ever be with the Lord" (1Thess. 4:17).

Peter preached the gospel of circumcision (Law) - do or pay the penalty. Paul prached the gospel of the uncircumcision (grace/unlaw) - unmerited favor.

Peter preached "repent and be baptized, (in water) and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Paul's preaching, concerning baptism, "I thank God that I baptized none of you..." (1Cor.1:14). Concerning baptism he wrote, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized unto one body... (dry-cleaned).

Will the one who started this thread PLEASE explain to me that what I has just written is the same message to both the Jews, under the Law, and The Body of Christ, in this dispensation of Grace.

I would greatly appreciate it.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[eph3Nine]

Dispy, dont hold your breath. There are those who regretfully insist on ignoring Pauls ministry and message and who are downright worse than resistant, but set out to FIGHT to the death the FACTS of scripture.

Things that are different are NOT the same, and those who continue to argue when presented with sound biblical facts are to be ignored...so saith the scriptures. They are ignorant...(not stupid, but UNLEARNED and UNSTUDIED) and Paul warns all of us over and over NOT to be IGNORANT of the mystery truths given to him and him alone for we the Body of Christ.

 

[WAB]

I have no problem with both Peter and Paul's instructions to their listeners as to their Christian walk. A believers walk, in any dispensation, should be that of following Ggod's instruction at that point in time of human history.

Peter preached "The Gospel of the Kingdom," which was to be established upon the earth. Paul preached "The Gospel of the Grace of God." The Gospel of the Kingdom had to do with Jesus confirming/fulfilling the promises to the Jewish fathers (Romans 15:8), a kingdom here upon the earth. Paul's preaching of The Gospel of the Grace of God," had to do with Israel's rejection of those promises, by rejecting the One who was to fulfill them. Paul NEVER promises us a place in the earthly kingdom, however, the members of The Body of Christ are to have a place in heaven "to ever be with the Lord" (1Thess. 4:17).

Peter preached the gospel of circumcision (Law) - do or pay the penalty. Paul prached the gospel of the uncircumcision (grace/unlaw) - unmerited favor.

Peter preached "repent and be baptized, (in water) and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Paul's preaching, concerning baptism, "I thank God that I baptized none of you..." (1Cor.1:14). Concerning baptism he wrote, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized unto one body... (dry-cleaned).

Will the one who started this thread PLEASE explain to me that what I has just written is the same message to both the Jews, under the Law, and The Body of Christ, in this dispensation of Grace.

I would greatly appreciate it.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

I am continually amazed at how those who declare themselves to be the legitimate purveyers of truth so often delete/ignore any part of Scripture that clearly contradicts their position.

Here is 1 Corinthians 1:14,15,16 in full... "I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanus. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other."

And this was just in Corinth! Paul goes on to state that... "...Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." (vs.17a) But those who traveled with Paul on his missionary journeys baptized (in water, by immersion) many. The reason Paul did not baptize more new believers personally, is explained very clearly when he says..."...lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name."

Paul clearly had been ordained of the Lord to reach huge numbers of people with the gospel of grace; both Gentiles and Jews. As pointed out previously, Paul spent months at a time preaching the gospel to his "brothers according to the flesh"... and where? In Jewish synagogues!

And, as put forth elsewhere, Paul preached "...the kingdom of God." And in many different places, and subsequent to his having received the revelation of the mysteries. See: Acts 20:25... Acts 14:21,22... Colossians 4:10,11...

Instead of "rightly dividing" the Scriptures, those who put a division between Paul and Peter have insulted the Spirit of grace.

Nevertheless... may His peace become your portion...

WAB

 

[eph3Nine]

Those who dont put the division that God does between Peter and Paul will be accused of preaching another gospel which is of a different kind...going BACK to the program that God has told us in His word He has SET ASIDE.

They have a CURSE on them! Scripture tells us so. Good LUCK! Cuz thats all you have goin for ya. Walks away shaking head....tsk tsk tsk

 

[thereselittleflower]

I have no problem with both Peter and Paul's instructions to their listeners as to their Christian walk. A believers walk, in any dispensation, should be that of following Ggod's instruction at that point in time of human history.

Peter preached "The Gospel of the Kingdom," which was to be established upon the earth. Paul preached "The Gospel of the Grace of God."

Dispy, I have something to ask you. You are stating here that Peter and Paul preached DIFFRENT Gospels, and what you say next flows from that understanding and is totally dependent on it.

But the scriptures tell us something quite different.

The scriptures tell us that BOTH Peter and Paul preached the SAME gospel, the Gospel of God.

Look at this with me:



Paul preached the Gosple of God

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

​

Peter preached the Gospel of God:

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

​

They both preached the SAME Gospel!

The Gospel of the Kingdom had to do with Jesus confirming/fulfilling the promises to the Jewish fathers (Romans 15:8), a kingdom here upon the earth. Paul's preaching of The Gospel of the Grace of God," had to do with Israel's rejection of those promises, by rejecting the One who was to fulfill them. Paul NEVER promises us a place in the earthly kingdom, however, the members of The Body of Christ are to have a place in heaven "to ever be with the Lord" (1Thess. 4:17).

Paul preached the kingdom of Christ.

Peter preached the kingdom of Christ.

2Pe 1:11 for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. ​

They both preached the SAME Kingdom!

Given that, none of what you said makes any sense

Peter preached the gospel of circumcision (Law)

There is absolutely no support for such a claim whatsoever and it does violence to the scripture which states that Peter preached the SAME gospel as Paul, the Gospel of God.

- do or pay the penalty. Paul prached the gospel of the uncircumcision (grace/unlaw) - unmerited favor.

See above.

Peter preached "repent and be baptized, (in water) and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Paul's preaching, concerning baptism, "I thank God that I baptized none of you..." (1Cor.1:14). Concerning baptism he wrote, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized unto one body... (dry-cleaned).

Given that we can easily see how your claim that Peter and Paul preached two different Gospels is false, this simply flows from that false premises and is, as a natural result, itself false.

Will the one who started this thread PLEASE explain to me that what I has just written is the same message to both the Jews, under the Law, and The Body of Christ, in this dispensation of Grace.

What you have written is in error, for both Peter and Paul preached the SAME Gospel, the Gospel of God, and the SAME kingdom, the Kingdom of Chirst.

I would greatly appreciate it.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

I hope the above begins helps you to see the fundamental error of your position on two different gospels and two different kingdoms.



Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

Those who dont put the division that God does between Peter and Paul will be accused of preaching another gospel which is of a different kind...going BACK to the program that God has told us in His word He has SET ASIDE.

The scriptures say Peter and Paul preached the SAME Gospel, the Gospel of God. . this has been brought to your attention several times now today eph. It is intellectualy dishonest to go about continuing to claim for your position while ignoring this important fact.

It is in my response to dipsy above again . . . if you continue to ignore this, and instead choose to promote the idea of 2 different gospels and 2 different kingdoms, then you are proving you have no desire to be intellectually honest with the rest of us here.

They have a CURSE on them!

Now you proclaim a curse on me simply because I can show from scripture your claim of two gospels and two kingdoms is false?

Ad hominems are evidence one has lost the argument, this persistant resorting to ad hominems is becomeing strong proof of it eph.

Scripture tells us so.

Hardly eph . . scripture clearly tells us that both Peter and Paul preached the SAME Gospel, the Gospel of God.

You evidently have no ammunition left other than ad hominems, which only serve to demonstrate, quite loudly, you can no longer defend your position.

Good LUCK! Cuz thats all you have goin for ya. Walks away shaking head....tsk tsk tsk

I have scripture that says they preached the same Gospel . . . you are unable to refute it without denouncing scripture itself.

This is the corner you have backed yourself into.

When you are ready to have an intellecutally honest discussion about this, let me know.



Peace

 

[Dispy]

I am very eager to have a discussion about the things I have posted.

If you will show me what I requested from the originator of this thread, and how each is the same message. It will be a very good start.

I will admit that both Peter and Paul preached Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. Peter in Acts 3:17-19 preached that it was something to repent of. In Galatians 6:14 Paul says he gloried in the Cross.

They both preached about a kingdom of God/heaven. Peter preached is as an earthly kingdom for the nation of Israel. Paul preached the kingdom of heaven, that is in heaven. Never promised an earthly kingdom to any member of the Body of Christ.

These are a couple of good points to start a discussion with. Just don't forget my initial post subjects.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[thereselittleflower]

I am very eager to have a discussion about the things I have posted.

If you will show me what I requested from the originator of this thread, and how each is the same message. It will be a very good start.

I am not really sure I understand what you are asking here.

I will admit that both Peter and Paul preached Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. Peter in Acts 3:17-19 preached that it was something to repent of. In Galatians 6:14 Paul says he gloried in the Cross.

They both preached about a kingdom of God/heaven. Peter preached is as an earthly kingdom for the nation of Israel. Paul preached the kingdom of heaven, that is in heaven. Never promised an earthly kingdom to any member of the Body of Christ.

Here is where dispensationalists leave what the scriptures actually state and begin to read into them their own views.

There is nowhere in scripture that states that Peter taught an earthly kingdom vs Paul teaching a heavenly kingdom.

They both preached the same kingdom, the kingdom of Christ.

These are a couple of good points to start a discussion with. Just don't forget my initial post subjects.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

I think it is very important to not read into scriptures what one wants to find. I find dispensationalism is like an onion, with layer upon layer of teaching that makes it hard to see the real, fundamental issues.

To approach dispesnationalism with any real coherency, one really needs to start from the inside, at its most foundational level.

That would be the whole idea that the Jews still have a yet to be fulfilled promise to the land given to Abraham . . .

This is where dispensationalism starts.


Peace

 

[Dispy]

I am not really sure I understand what you are asking here.

If you don't, then I would find it hard to have an intelligent conversation with you.

BTW, when did Israel occupy the land promised Abram in Genesis 15:18?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

 

[thereselittleflower]

If you don't, then I would find it hard to have an intelligent conversation with you.

It simply means you weren't clear enough about what you were referring to and need to explain yourself better if you want others to engage in an intelligent conversation with you .

BTW, when did Israel occupy the land promised Abram in Genesis 15:18?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

The Kingdoms of David and Solomon controlled all the land promised Abraham.



Peace

 

[eph3Nine]

How can folks cooperate with God if they are not even AWARE of what program He is currently operating in? Let alone converse about Gods plans as laid out in the scriptures. There is definitely a time for keeping quiet and LEARNING from the scriptures and realizing one hasnt got all the facts. Your eternal rewards and even your destination may depend on it.

 

[thereselittleflower]

How can folks cooperate with God if they are not even AWARE of what program He is currently operating in? Let alone converse about Gods plans as laid out in the scriptures. There is definitely a time for keeping quiet and LEARNING from the scriptures and realizing one hasnt got all the facts. Your eternal rewards and even your destination may depend on it.

I have presented facts which contradict your claims right and left, yet you persist in ignoring those facts and go on as if they didn't exist.


Peter and Paul both preached the same gospel, the Gospel of God

Peter and Paul both preached the same kingdom, the kingdom of Christ

Both Peter and Paul, each, were commissioned by God to go to both the Jews and the Gentiles . . .


Peter lived as a gentile and ate with the gentiles . .


all these things, and others, you have absolutely ignored . . .


When are you going to deal with them?


Are you just going to keep starting new threads in hopes that people won't notice you are ignoring thiese facts?


Why are you being intellectually dishonest with us?



Peace

 

[FreeinChrist]

I am continually amazed at how those who declare themselves to be the legitimate purveyers of truth so often delete/ignore any part of Scripture that clearly contradicts their position.

Here is 1 Corinthians 1:14,15,16 in full... "I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanus. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other."

And this was just in Corinth! Paul goes on to state that... "...Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." (vs.17a) But those who traveled with Paul on his missionary journeys baptized (in water, by immersion) many. The reason Paul did not baptize more new believers personally, is explained very clearly when he says..."...lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name."

Paul clearly had been ordained of the Lord to reach huge numbers of people with the gospel of grace; both Gentiles and Jews. As pointed out previously, Paul spent months at a time preaching the gospel to his "brothers according to the flesh"... and where? In Jewish synagogues!

And, as put forth elsewhere, Paul preached "...the kingdom of God." And in many different places, and subsequent to his having received the revelation of the mysteries. See: Acts 20:25... Acts 14:21,22... Colossians 4:10,11...

Instead of "rightly dividing" the Scriptures, those who put a division between Paul and Peter have insulted the Spirit of grace.

Nevertheless... may His peace become your portion...

WAB

I agree!!

 

[eph3Nine]

The Spirit of Grace would have to bow to the DISPENSATION Of Grace, as God is now operating in that Dispensation whether you care to acknowledge it or NOT!

Saying a sunset doesnt exist is a silly thing to do ....for a blind man. Those who have their vision DO see the sunset...and it goes on with or without the BELIEF of the one with his eyes closed.

 

[thereselittleflower]

eph, when you are willing to enter into an intellectually honest discussion with us about the scriptures which have been presented numerous times which contradict your claims there are 2 gospels, 2 kingdoms, etc. . . let us know.

Until then, all you are doing is spouting rhetoric and the traditions of men.



Peace