Insight requested please! 1 Cor 2:1-5

[mesaboogier]

“When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.” (1 Cor. 2:1-5)

I’m going to start off by saying I want to think that I know what this passage means. The problem is that if it says what I think it is saying, then I am not sure what to do about it, or how to implement that into a gospel message. This is one of those many times that I wish I was back in Corinth, and Paul shows up, and I get to see in person what Paul means by “My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.”

I am not ashamed to say I’m a Fundacharismentalastic Christian, and I would prefer to not pass judgment on a passage that I am not comfortable with until I feel that the Holy Spirit has given me true revelation of what the passage means. Unfortunately that has not occurred with this passage (and a few others similar to it). So the Fundamental side and the Charismatic side of me try to rationalize this passage to fit into my nice pretty doctrinal package. (Which, by the way, God has unwrapped that package and strewn it’s contents everywhere because of the fact that so much of my theology was and is mostly “men’s wisdom” that has been passed on to me and although much of it may be truth, I can admit that I have blindly accepted some of it as truth, because it fit my puzzle. Anyways, that is a whole other subject.)

So here I am, proclaiming to all that I am unsettled by and unsure of this passage, but I am very interested in what it means to others. In my personal experience it seems that much of the American church growth comes by church transfers and then the occasional person who has been saved and regenerated into a new creature. Many American Christians (by no means all) have been raised in a Christian home, and have been taught about Christ since they were young. Could it be that there are many who attend church, and are hungry, but they are just receiving “men‘s wisdom“? I am honestly stumped on how to deliver the gospel because it seems most Americans should already know who Jesus Christ is, and I feel I really could use “a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.” Knowing the Romans road and leading someone into the believers prayer is wonderful and can work, but is that a demonstration of the Spirit’s power? Is recommending a book or a taped sermon series about God going to make a persons faith rest on God’s power alone? Obviously these things are valid, but it seems like Paul may be referring to something more than these things, and I am caught outside of my comfort zone.

So again, the Fundamentalist in me and the Charismatic part of me battle it out, rationalizing each other away. I think the part of me that would love to see God do something supernatural can see the benefit of being able to give that version of “a demonstration of the Spirit’s power” to non-believers, but what in the world is Paul talking about? Then the fundamentalist side of me says that only a wicked generation looks for a sign, so I am stumped. I have had a few supernatural experiences, and each one turned my world upside down and revealed more of God‘s power to me (which I would be happy to share because God is glorified in them), and I have also heard of and read about many supernatural happenings in the mission field which glorify Christ and result in many believers. The thing is, I am quick to discount the possibility of these things, and I find it hard to believe that these things could happen here today.

Therefore, I am requesting insight into this passage. I am interested in what this means to my friends and fellow believers. I do hope that in your responses, you will address the demonstration of the Spirit’s power part because that is the part that stumps me the most. I do not want to be closed minded towards anyone’s view on this, mainly because mine is far from being solidified. Any help and prayer would be appreciated.

 

[sungaunga]

hi mesaboogier ^^

you're right just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not true. The Scripture is replete with doctrines that are hard for us humans to understand in its fullness. Such as how can God be eternal, how can Jesus be both 100% man and human. God's ways are not our ways and his thoughts are infinite where as we are finite. If I knew everything, i'd be God. And for me that's a huge testimony as to the divine nature of Scripture. We know editors, they correct everything.

Anyway on to the subject. i believe this whole section of the epistle deals with the wisdom of God. Paul is saying that God's wisdom is superior to anything and everything mans wisdom can come up with. Simplest person without any education who knows God knows more than the greatest philosopher in the world who doesn't know God.

Jesus quotes Isaiah 29 and says "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent." In short Jesus is saying that the wisdom of men are useless ... scubalon, and that he will destroy it. [keep in mind we are talking about spiritual issues, not about going to school learning math, english etc..] He then goes on to say, Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? The best of philosophers writers and speakers of this world just could not solve their biggest problem, Sin. It's useless, it's inconsequential and will take you no where. But by contrast, God's wisdom is what we need, his wisdom is everlasting and Jesus says that it will destroy human wisdom. And so this section of Corinthians deals with the fact that Paul is confronting those who come at Scripture with their own intellectual philosophies. There just wasn't a unity in the Church there. They were all believers, but they couldn't get together in real unity because they were philosophically divided. And so Paul attacks the idea of division over the basis of the world's wisdom.

hope that somewhat helped ^^

 

[Yarddog]

“When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.” (1 Cor. 2:1-5)
Hello Mesaboogier,

I must say that it is always refreshing to read a humble statement like yours. I think that it shows that the Spirit of God is really working in you.

IMHO, we must see that Paul is talking to the Corinthians, who are Greek. The Greeks like to talk about philosophy. They gathered in the agoras and debated frequently and Paul didn't want to associate the Gospel in the same manner.

He points to the Greeks as being "wise".
Ro 1:14
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. [/FONT]

In 1 Corinthians 1 he tells us that wisedom, of human thinking, is not the way.
[/FONT]
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning. 18 The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the learning of the learned I will set aside." 20 Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world did not come to know God through wisdom, it was the will of God through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those who have faith. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom,

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The only way to know God, is not through intelligence of the world but through the power of his Spirit.

I don't want to liken any of this to your Church or other Christian Churches but more to intellectual atheists or self righteous people and those like them. They look at things differently than Christians. They think that we are foolish to put our faith in Christ and see the Bible as a contradiction.

When we are trying to give our Christian confession, we don't want to liken ourselves to the intellectual idiots of the world.

 

[mesaboogier]

I thank you both for your responses. It is good to be among loving and gentle believers. I am not into debates and I think it is wonderful and refreshing to have a discussion, without the goal of wanting to "win". I encourage any others who may have a different take or that are in agreement to also voice their thoughts. I also want to discourage anyone from using this forum to argue or to share their knowledge without love being their driving purpose. Thank you and God bless you all!

 

[Senix]

Maybe Paul was noting that proclamation and preaching the Gospel message should be simple and transparent, not to be done with eloquent words, clever language, or manipulation. I believe that the power of God referred to is the Spirit's power to change hearts and minds toward Christ. It is ultimately He who moves people's hearts so that they accept Christ into their hearts, not the words of preachers.

 

[Hammster]

When sharing the Gospel, it should be just that: the Gospel. When we add ourselves into it, or try to "seal the deal" by getting them to recite a prayer, then it is no longer the Gospel. It is men's wisdom and manipulation. I think that is what Paul is talking about. He came and preached Christ, and Him crucified (and we know from 1 Corinthians that he also preached the resurrection) and he let that message stand on its own. The Gospel is Good News, not good advice. If you proclaim it, it is then up to the hearer whether to believe it or not.

 

[SpiritDriven]

“When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.” (1 Cor. 2:1-5)

Yes indeed, here we have the foremost of all sinners....who is amazed in fear and trembling of such a mercifull God whos early church he persecuted.

Yet here he was....chosen by that God, no less than an Apostle !

Glory be to God!

 

[rcorlew]

Paul is saying that he does not dress up the gospel to make it look like the new thing, or fancy and decorated. The gospel is simple yet so incomprehensibly complex that only God himself could think of it, put it into action and then complete it.



It would be much like having a lawyer trying to write a get well card, they end up putting in so much extra junk that the original intent is lost in the delivery. Moreover, he is stating that he does not dress his message up with all the extra spiritual double talk and gobbilitygook. Save the drawn out exegesis for in depth bible study.



The gospel should be preached in its simplest form, teach what sin is, what judgment is, who Christ Jesus is and who God really is. That is all that is required, the rest is the work of the Holy Spirit. You in doing that will soon find that most people already know they sin, they have heard of Hell and something about judgment, they have heard of Jesus and know he was important somehow and most even know of him being born of a virgin and coming back to life, the key ingredient missing most of the time is people simply have no idea who God really is. Show them the true God, the god of Abraham and Isaac and Joseph.

 

[heymikey80]

To me, 1 Cor 2 can't be split of from 1 Cor 1. So Paul's not swinging the pendulum between sign-seeking and wisdom; the power of God can be demonstrated by signs, but it must not be dependent on signs (else Paul's blowing smoke w/ 1 Cor 1, and to a church obsessed with signs). Instead the power is that, and more than that. The power raised Christ from the dead; the power brought people to recognize what this meant spiritually; if the power had been applied to the rulers of this world, they would not have crucified the son of Glory; the power comes to us personally in wisdom that looks foolish to the nonspiritual sophists of this age.

 

[DerSchweik]

Some great comments - taking up heymikey's I agree I Cor 2 needs to viewed in light of what Paul was saying in the previous chapter where he was admonishing the Corinthian Christians for the divisions that they had allowed to emerge within them (the church) by identifying with various charismatic (for lack of a better word) leaders among them ("I am of Apollos," "I am of Paul," ... etc.) in whose "wisdom" they were placing their faith (1 Cor 2:5), rather than on [the power of] God.

Paul responds to their divisions by appealing to their identity in Christ (1:10-17) and then to the nature of the message they'd received (1:23ff).

Paul then proclaims the gospel to be the "power of God" (vs. any wisdom we might possess) - 2:5 again. C.f. Romans 1:16: "I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes..."

Which I think gets to the heart of your question, Paul's phrase - "...my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and and of power..."

Sharing the gospel and our faith with others is not just preaching the message of the cross and Christ crucified (2:1f), but demonstrating in our lives the renewing the Spirit (Titus 3:5) has accomplished in us - how we behave, how we respond, the graciousness of our words:

Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person. - Col 4:5

I don't get the impression in Paul's letter to the church in Corinth that he merely preached the word to them - a quick blast of the gospel from a street corner here or there - but that, as he did elsewhere, he took pains to live and work among them so they could not only hear his message of the cross, but that they could see in his person the transformative change the message of the cross had in him. He was gracious, personable, patient, loving, kind, joyful - and consistent - all fruits of the Spirit by which he'd been renewed/transformed.

IMHO, that's the power of the Spirit as it pertains to sharing the gospel message with others.

God bless!! Great topic!