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Insidious contradictions

Trashionista

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I wasn't saying people who kill for thrills have guilt. I was talking about your own guilt about abortion coming out because you automatically associated my example of things that are not my opinion with abortion.

Then what's with the previous comments insinuating that women enjoying getting abortions?

The second sentence seems indicative of someone detached from their own emotions IMHO.

It is perhaps, to my benefit, that I find your opinion worthless.

I will say, I find it odd that someone who keeps having to backtrack and contradict their original points is arguing with pro-choicers who all apparently, use contradictions to convince themselves abortion is moral. I can leave that to readers to infer who I am referring to.
 
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Phaedros

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I will say, I find it odd that someone who keeps having to backtrack and contradict their original points is arguing with pro-choicers who all apparently, use contradictions to convince themselves abortion is moral. I can leave that to readers to infer who I am referring to.

I am having to backtrack because you seem to be having trouble following me. Sorry.
 
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P

Phinehas2

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Were they right to support slavery with scripture? No, holistically the slave trade could not be supported with scripture and slavery is not countenanced. Sure Christians are told to respect slave and master in the system, but In Christ there is neither slave nor free.

Those that supported slavery didn’t see black people as fully human, bit like the pro-choice abortion position which doesnt see people as foetus fully human.
Between the two evils, at least racism doesnt necessarily terminate lives.
 
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Archivist

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Simply because they didn't realize what was morally right based on their own presumptions doesn't mean they had an excuse.

And, as I said earlier, hindsight is 20/20.

I would recommend Rodney Stark to you for some reading on how Christianity was instrumental in ending slavery in medieval times and in the New World.

I am fully aware of the role that Christianity played in the abolition of slavery, but I will add thsi to my reading list.
 
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Archivist

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You put it forward as potentially indicative of MLK Jr.'s support of abortion. If that's what you want to do then you do the research and submit as evidence for your position. I highly doubt it is the case and maybe I will research. However, you were making the positive claim and therefore should provide further support for it if asked.

No, I simply noted that he was a supporter of Planned Parenthood. I never said that his membership was indicitive of his support of abortion, you are implying that. I did specifically said that never commented on abortion, at least not publically. Simply because I point out something doesn't mean that I need to to be an expert or supply extensive evidence. If I would note that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, that doesn't mean that I need to know how many American ships were sunk or who commanded the attack.
 
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wikipedia:
"Slavery in different forms existed within Christianity for over 18 centuries."

This statement has no citation on wikipedia and is misleading because it assumes that Christianity is somehow a political institution.

"By the end of the Medieval period, enslavement of Christians had been largely abolished throughout Europe although enslavement of non-Christians remained an open question. "

In response to this and other misconceptions I submit:
"Some historians deny that there ever was an end to medieval slavery-that nothing happened other then a linguistic shift in which the word "slave" was replaced by the word "serf." Here it is not history but historians who are playing word games. Serfs were not chattels; they had rights and a substantial degree of discretion. They married whom they wished, and their families were not subject to sale or dispersal...While no one would argue that medieval peasants were free in the modern sense, they were not slaves, and that brutal institution had essentially disappeared from Europe by the end of the tenth century. Although most recent historians agree with that conclusion it remains fashionable to deny that Christianity had anything to with it...Rather, slavery is said to have disappeared because it became an unprofitable and outdated mode of production...Hence the claim that the end of slavery was not a moral decision but one of pure self-interest on the part of the elite...That same argument has been made concerning the abolition of slavery in the Western Hemisphere. Both claims are consistent, of course, with Marxist doctrine but are quite inconsistent with economic realities. Even as late as the start of the American Civil War, Southern slavery remained a very profitable 'mode of production.' The same was true in early medieval Europe....Slavery ended in Europe only because the church extended its sacraments to all slaves and then managed to impose a ban on the enslavement of Christians (and of Jews). Within the context of medieval Europe, that prohibition was effectively a rule of universal abolition."

He goes on to talk about Ephesians 6:5,8 and how people forget to quote the next verse which is "Masters, do the same to them (slaves), and forbear threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him." More: "At the end of the eighth century, Charlemagne opposed slavery, while the pope and many other powerful and effective clerical voices echoed Saint Bathilda. As the ninth century dawned, Bishop Agobard of Lyons thundered: 'All men are brothers, all invoke one same Father, God: the slave and the master, the poor man and the rich man, the ignorant and the learned, the weak and the strong...none has been raised above the other...there is no...slave or free, but in all things and always there is only Christ.' At the same time, Abbot Smaragde of Saint-Mihiel wrote in a work dedicated to Charlemagne: 'Most merciful king, forbid that there should be any slave in your kingdom.' Soon, no one 'doubted that slavery in itself was against divine law.'" This last quote comes from Marc Block Slavery and serfdom in the Middle Ages. All of this quoted from Rodney Stary The Victory of Reason pp. 26-30.

First, I specifically wrote "Actually there were numerous Southern ministers who preached that the Bible supported slavery. Do I think they were right? No Did they find scripture to support their position? Yes. Did they believe, based on their interpretation of scripture, that they were doing the right thing? Yes." You are acting as if I said that the Bible supports slavery. I never said it did.

Second, what does this have to do with abortion? I see that you are new to CF. The idea is to stay on topic. If you want to discuss alavery then start a new thread.
 
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It's very difficult to follow points that are illogical.

Agreed, because the thread is about abortion, and there was certainly nothing said that statement dealt with another subject.
 
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