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Inquirers/Catechumens

Mary of Bethany

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Our parish has had a steady stream of people interested in the Church for about the last 15 months - in spite of COVID. Most are younger and coming out of some form of Protestantism (or nothing). Just curious to see what other parishes are experiencing.
 
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We have had a TON of young people converting for about 3 years straight. I have mixed feelings honestly. On one hand I feel thrilled for obvious reasons, but also I feel worried for the future because many of them are fanatical either as liberals or conservatives and despite catechism classes, they often don’t seem well-grounded in the faith. Many are very brash and loud. Several of us have noticed that.
 
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Landos

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Orthodoxy needs new members if it is to grow and not be just an ethnic Church, but I agree with gurneyhalleck1 that they need to be grounded in the Faith or they have a hard time fitting and contributing long term. I'd be interested in hearing what attracts them to Orthodoxy, since we don't get much coverage in the MSM. Or maybe it's THAT which attracts them, the news media not having too much respect anymore?

As for their politics, I hope they leave that at the door. There is no place for it in a Church, at least in my view.
 
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Anhelyna

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I understand we have a fair number of inquirers - I know Fr has had several approaches from young people during the time we have been closed and he and our monk have been streaming our Services and prayer meetings via Zoom. Several of these folk are joining us on our Zoom meetings. We have 1 catechumen who will be Chrismated when she can travel to us for a weekend - hopefully soon now
 
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It's a good question that you pose, Landos, and from my observations of these young people and conversations with some, it seems there are several reasons they become interested. Some of the reasons are excellent, some not so good, but I think God can use many motivations to bring people home to the Orthodox Church.

I've observed a few young folks stuck in a time warp. They feel they just don't fit in. They're quirky. A few dress old school and want to feel attached to ancient history. They read about the Middle Ages and Constantinople and medievalism and the old days of yore, and they see the Divine Liturgy complete with "wisdom!" and "let us be attentive!" and "the doors! the doors!" with swinging censors and the smells and bells, and they feel like they're in a history book living it out. I suppose that is God's way of bringing them in, but they need to realize it's not the history channel, but a living, breathing faith and it all has profound meaning.

Some of them again don't feel like they fit in, so they are what some of us call "hyperdox." For the same reason papalists who were formerly Protestants become Roman Catholic sometimes, to look down on the "poor protestant rabble" and feel a sense of superiority not fitting in with the folks around them, some become Orthodox to call everyone a "heretic." I've actually had to deal with that lately. Some of these really young Millennials are obsessed with labels and calling everyone a "heretic." I find it off-putting and irritating. They all fancy themselves St. Athanasius or St. Maximus the Confessor fighting against guys like Arius or Nestorius. It's sometimes childish and actually damaging. I've actually seen this a lot.

Some are angry at their former life as a Baptist or Pentecostal or Anglican or Catholic, and now Orthodoxy gives them this feeling of "ugh, those poor pathetic _________'s." My dad used to call it the "reformed smoker" effect. The person smokes 35 years, quits, and instantly spends their days 24/7 mocking smokers as pathetic wretches.

Then there are the political converts. These folks see America from a conservative point of view. Nuclear family. I don't like gays. Dad is the head of the household and mom isn't. I hate abortion. I like my guns. I hate commies. They see Pope Francis and the current Catholic Church as liberation theology sell-outs and many protestants as too liberal, so Orthodoxy has that appeal. And within that group, sometimes I see these married folks and it has a pretty obvious "bake me a pie, woman!" tone to it and I've seen some of the guys trying to out-macho each other. It's odd to say the least. So they didn't find Orthodoxy because they love Orthodoxy, they found a church that fits what they already wanted.

Then there are the liberal socialists who like that Orthodoxy isn't as explicitly rigid with a catechism like Catholicism and they like the less harsh views of the atonement that we see in the West that are bloody and spooky legalism. But they bring baggage with them to Orthodoxy like "democratic socialism" and other youthful Marxist pie-in-the-sky tripe.

Then you have people who feel a spiritual calling and prayed about it. They read about Orthodoxy feeling unfulfilled but no ill will toward their former churches. They just want to serve God and be in the True Church, and through study and reading and perhaps from a friend, they find Orthodoxy.

Sometimes it's icons they see at a Greek or Serbian festival and their artistic interest is piqued and something stirs inside them to ask questions. The Holy Spirit pulls them in that way.

Sometimes it comes through a healthy search and conversation with a friend or someone they're taking a class with in college. They might see an OCF at their campus and find refuge there amidst all the LGBT brainwashing and all the legalize crack and bestality campus loons.

There are unhealthy reasons that some enter, wonderful reasons for others. Some stay, and I see some go. Some are immature on many levels, some come for the right reason.

Orthodoxy needs new members if it is to grow and not be just an ethnic Church, but I agree with gurneyhalleck1 that they need to be grounded in the Faith or they have a hard time fitting and contributing long term. I'd be interested in hearing what attracts them to Orthodoxy, since we don't get much coverage in the MSM. Or maybe it's THAT which attracts them, the news media not having too much respect anymore?

As for their politics, I hope they leave that at the door. There is no place for it in a Church, at least in my view.
 
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Melily

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There were 7 of us that took part in our catechumen service in March. Three of us were late 40’s to 60 (I’m 50’s) and others looked like they were in their 20’s or 30’s. I have a tender heart for the 20’s-30’s just because my daughters are in that age group and I see how growing up with things like social media and the extremely divisive political environment has impacted them.
When I first learned about orthodoxy it seemed odd that the catechumen process lasted so long but now I think I understand better why that is. It’s such a serious commitment and there’s so much to learn (and unlearn) and that can really only happen with time. I thought I was ready to convert in November after about 9 months of independent research and learning but after I started attending services I realized that all of my own seeking was just the tip of the iceberg so to speak. I love the explanation of it being like courtship before marriage. Lord have Mercy on all of us catechumens!
 
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Landos

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There were 7 of us that took part in our catechumen service in March. Three of us were late 40’s to 60 (I’m 50’s) and others looked like they were in their 20’s or 30’s. I have a tender heart for the 20’s-30’s just because my daughters are in that age group and I see how growing up with things like social media and the extremely divisive political environment has impacted them.
When I first learned about orthodoxy it seemed odd that the catechumen process lasted so long but now I think I understand better why that is. It’s such a serious commitment and there’s so much to learn (and unlearn) and that can really only happen with time. I thought I was ready to convert in November after about 9 months of independent research and learning but after I started attending services I realized that all of my own seeking was just the tip of the iceberg so to speak. I love the explanation of it being like courtship before marriage. Lord have Mercy on all of us catechumens!

Learning in Orthodoxy is a continual process. While I am of Greek descent, my active association with the Orthodox Church has really only been about 20 years. My dad emphasized educational pursuits when we were kids and not religion, so I studied Byzantine history as a historical event and not with respect to it's Faith based aspects.

All of us are constantly learning about Orthodoxy, as you can see in some of my posts in this forum. Even if we've been in the Church for decades there are often things we don't clearly understand and want to learn more about. The main things is the desire to know more is there, because the chief attraction of Orthodoxy when compared to Protestantism or Roman Catholicism is the essential mystery of our Faith. People naturally want to learn more about the Divine Liturgy and other things and how it brings us close to God.
 
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Landos

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It's a good question that you pose, Landos, and from my observations of these young people and conversations with some, it seems there are several reasons they become interested. Some of the reasons are excellent, some not so good, but I think God can use many motivations to bring people home to the Orthodox Church.

I've observed a few young folks stuck in a time warp. They feel they just don't fit in. They're quirky. A few dress old school and want to feel attached to ancient history. They read about the Middle Ages and Constantinople and medievalism and the old days of yore, and they see the Divine Liturgy complete with "wisdom!" and "let us be attentive!" and "the doors! the doors!" with swinging censors and the smells and bells, and they feel like they're in a history book living it out. I suppose that is God's way of bringing them in, but they need to realize it's not the history channel, but a living, breathing faith and it all has profound meaning.

Some of them again don't feel like they fit in, so they are what some of us call "hyperdox." For the same reason papalists who were formerly Protestants become Roman Catholic sometimes, to look down on the "poor protestant rabble" and feel a sense of superiority not fitting in with the folks around them, some become Orthodox to call everyone a "heretic." I've actually had to deal with that lately. Some of these really young Millennials are obsessed with labels and calling everyone a "heretic." I find it off-putting and irritating. They all fancy themselves St. Athanasius or St. Maximus the Confessor fighting against guys like Arius or Nestorius. It's sometimes childish and actually damaging. I've actually seen this a lot.

Some are angry at their former life as a Baptist or Pentecostal or Anglican or Catholic, and now Orthodoxy gives them this feeling of "ugh, those poor pathetic _________'s." My dad used to call it the "reformed smoker" effect. The person smokes 35 years, quits, and instantly spends their days 24/7 mocking smokers as pathetic wretches.

Then there are the political converts. These folks see America from a conservative point of view. Nuclear family. I don't like gays. Dad is the head of the household and mom isn't. I hate abortion. I like my guns. I hate commies. They see Pope Francis and the current Catholic Church as liberation theology sell-outs and many protestants as too liberal, so Orthodoxy has that appeal. And within that group, sometimes I see these married folks and it has a pretty obvious "bake me a pie, woman!" tone to it and I've seen some of the guys trying to out-macho each other. It's odd to say the least. So they didn't find Orthodoxy because they love Orthodoxy, they found a church that fits what they already wanted.

Then there are the liberal socialists who like that Orthodoxy isn't as explicitly rigid with a catechism like Catholicism and they like the less harsh views of the atonement that we see in the West that are bloody and spooky legalism. But they bring baggage with them to Orthodoxy like "democratic socialism" and other youthful Marxist pie-in-the-sky tripe.

Then you have people who feel a spiritual calling and prayed about it. They read about Orthodoxy feeling unfulfilled but no ill will toward their former churches. They just want to serve God and be in the True Church, and through study and reading and perhaps from a friend, they find Orthodoxy.

Sometimes it's icons they see at a Greek or Serbian festival and their artistic interest is piqued and something stirs inside them to ask questions. The Holy Spirit pulls them in that way.

Sometimes it comes through a healthy search and conversation with a friend or someone they're taking a class with in college. They might see an OCF at their campus and find refuge there amidst all the LGBT brainwashing and all the legalize crack and bestality campus loons.

There are unhealthy reasons that some enter, wonderful reasons for others. Some stay, and I see some go. Some are immature on many levels, some come for the right reason.

God works in mysterious ways. Maybe some folks come to Orthodoxy for the wrong reasons, but end up staying for the right reasons? If only half the new folks stay for the long term, that's a net gain in my view. They bring needed growth.

I attended a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church when I was first married-that is a fairly conservative Lutheran branch. I was comfortable there for a long time and active in that Church. But what I see in some of the Protestant denominations appalls me, frankly. Opening the door to sinful practices on the basis that anything less than that is 'intolerance' is driving many people away. God loves all sinners, but He hates the sin. Some Protestant denomination leadership and clergy are walking a dangerous path.

The traditional values of Orthodoxy are attracting a lot of people who, like me, are appalled at what they see in some mainline Protestant Churches. But you're right, we need to distinguish between traditional/conservative and old-country misogynistic nonsense, which is every bit as appalling as the Left-wing, 'anything goes' nonsense.
 
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buzuxi02

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I'm a 22 years old catechumen, but sorry I won't stop wearing traditional Greek clothes and pretend to save Constantinople. :D
I'm like that 17 year old rebellious teen who never stops being critical of their parents but as soon as someone else talks about my mother I'll rip your head off.
The stuff the GOA and EP and generally even the "Greek" part of Orthodoxy does and says makes me cringe and wish they can just go away (both the clergy and laity. But when outsiders start spouting off nonsense time for the smackdown.
 
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Landos

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I'm like that 17 year old rebellious teen who never stops being critical of their parents but as soon as someone else talks about my mother I'll rip your head off.
The stuff the GOA and EP and generally even the "Greek" part of Orthodoxy does and says makes me cringe and wish they can just go away (both the clergy and laity. But when outsiders start spouting off nonsense time for the smackdown.

Remember the 'Greek' part of Orthodoxy went down fighting the Ottoman hordes when Europe-with few exceptions-couldn't be bothered. Greeks kept the Orthodox flame burning through the centuries, in spite of terrible oppression from the Turks. You might think of that next time you 'cringe' at something somebody said.
 
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buzuxi02

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Remember the 'Greek' part of Orthodoxy went down fighting the Ottoman hordes when Europe-with few exceptions-couldn't be bothered. Greeks kept the Orthodox flame burning through the centuries, in spite of terrible oppression from the Turks. You might think of that next time you 'cringe' at something somebody said.
They did, but not really anymore. In fact the latest current events in Greece is the constant desecration of paintings of national heroes and of icons by the modernists. They traded in one empire for a much worse one (EU). They went from being ruled by the Otto-man to being ruled by the Otto-boy german teenaged king.
They participated in the population exchange to only flood their country again with moslems 100 years later.
The real Roman/Greeks said better the Turban than the Latin mitre , the modernist Greeks say better to join the human progressives of Europe and their rules than follow anything of our forefathers.
 
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Landos

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They did, but not really anymore. In fact the latest current events in Greece is the constant desecration of paintings of national heroes and of icons by the modernists. They traded in one empire for a much worse one (EU). They went from being ruled by the Otto-man to being ruled by the Otto-boy german teenaged king.
They participated in the population exchange to only flood their country again with moslems 100 years later.
The real Roman/Greeks said better the Turban than the Latin mitre , the modernist Greeks say better to join the human progressives of Europe and their rules than follow anything of our forefathers.

You're painting with a broad brush, shamelessly generalizing and engaging in rampant exaggeration. What, do you think if you keep throwing mud something will stick? Greece isn't perfect and I never said it was, but no nation alive can claim greater sacrifice for and adherence to Orthodoxy. 400 years under the Ottoman heel the Greeks kept the lights burning. You know that, or you should.
 
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The Italians fought their butts off saving Orthodox hiney against the Ottomons for so long. Venetians.

Remember the 'Greek' part of Orthodoxy went down fighting the Ottoman hordes when Europe-with few exceptions-couldn't be bothered. Greeks kept the Orthodox flame burning through the centuries, in spite of terrible oppression from the Turks. You might think of that next time you 'cringe' at something somebody said.
 
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prodromos

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You're painting with a broad brush, shamelessly generalizing and engaging in rampant exaggeration. What, do you think if you keep throwing mud something will stick? Greece isn't perfect and I never said it was, but no nation alive can claim greater sacrifice for and adherence to Orthodoxy. 400 years under the Ottoman heel the Greeks kept the lights burning. You know that, or you should.
Have you visited Greece recently?
We lived there for just over 12 years but made the decision to move back to Australia when we realised that it wasn't where we wanted our children growing up. There had been a steady moral decline that was clearly visible to us while living there. We love Greece and pray daily for the nation's return to the faith of their fathers, but they are presently a long way distant from the heroics of their forefathers.
The convents and monasteries are another matter entirely, and probably the only reason Greece hasn't collapsed into a steaming pile of donkey dung already.
 
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Landos

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The Italians fought their butts off saving Orthodox hiney against the Ottomons for so long. Venetians.

Venetians and Genoese mercenaries aided the Byzantines-and were well compensated for it. But that's it, nobody else in Europe cared. That is fact.
 
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Landos

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Have you visited Greece recently?
We lived there for just over 12 years but made the decision to move back to Australia when we realised that it wasn't where we wanted our children growing up. There had been a steady moral decline that was clearly visible to us while living there. We love Greece and pray daily for the nation's return to the faith of their fathers, but they are presently a long way distant from the heroics of their forefathers.
The convents and monasteries are another matter entirely, and probably the only reason Greece hasn't collapsed into a steaming pile of donkey dung already.

There has been a 'steady moral decline' all over the west. It's in America as well, and my Aussie friends tell me they have issues down there in Adelaide and Melbourne. Get outside of Athens, Greece and you'll encounter far more genuine people in that country. Big cities in the west are riddled with problems. You been to London lately? It's turning into a cesspool and it used to be a beautiful city.

When I was in Greece I got outside of the urban areas, especially to some of the islands off the beaten track and I was treated very hospitably. Don't judge Greece by Athens or even Thessaloniki. They have issues with too many refugees from the third world.
 
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prodromos

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There has been a 'steady moral decline' all over the west. It's in America as well, and my Aussie friends tell me they have issues down there in Adelaide and Melbourne. Get outside of Athens, Greece and you'll encounter far more genuine people in that country. Big cities in the west are riddled with problems. You been to London lately? It's turning into a cesspool and it used to be a beautiful city.
We lived in Thessaloniki.
 
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