Initial impressions...a few random thoughts

[TankGirl]

Hi everyone! My first post in this forum...

I have always loved science, did best in maths, biology, chemistry & geography at school, and have always had a fascination with how things are made & function.

I have also always believed in & loved God, although I didn't commit my life to the Lord until I was 23. I guess I grew up believing 2 things about Creation - firstly God made everything; secondly the Universe is x-billion years old, Dinosaurs roamed the earth millions of years before man etc etc. Once I became a Christian, I naturally believed more strongly in point one (John 1 just makes me melt to read, I go into ecstasies over it ), but I never really thought too closely about how my faith affected my opinions about point two...

A couple of years ago, I had a brief conversation in passing with a friend whose intellect I respect immensely. He was mentioning a talk he had attended by someone holding a YEC view. I was intrigued, and asked what he thought, expecting him to dismiss out of hand such a view (being an intelligent, educated man!), but he told me he found the arguments very convincing.

This has played on my mind quite a bit over the years, as someone who has always automatically dismissed the notion of a 6000 year old earth & a literal 6 day creation as "illogical", based on the "facts". So I decided to have a nose in OT (I also followed the AiG links, and had a read of several articles there). Here are my initial thoughts...

There are several points made at AiG, which have really made me think, and I find impossible to dismiss. In particular the translations of the "days" in Genesis is very convincing, but most of all the notion of death & disease existing prior to the Fall, given an Old Earth perspective. That just doesn't sit with me - I find I have to agree that it is absolutely (I use the word delibrately) illogical to think that there was death before the Fall. And I find myself amazed that I could never have considered this before.

I decided long ago (after coming to faith), that if I found myself disagreeing with something in Scripture, it didn't make it wrong, it just meant that my understanding was at fault. Somehow, I never seemed to get round to applying that to Creation!

I have found myself, today, constantly thinking of Babel, and how man is so convinced of his own brilliance that he can build something to reach God. How science feels the need to explain everything and have all the answers all the time. And I have noticed a smugness and superiority towards YEC adherants.

But what I find perhaps the most convincing is the arguments made by evolutionists. I have read all day arguments that follow this pattern... "Scientific evidence says this, so God's word cannot be literal". And I'm horrified! I don't wish to appear some ignorant, uneducated neanderthal (sorry ), but I am just not prepared to "interpret" Scripture to fit some worldly model, no matter how convincing that may be. My Bible says a whole lot of stuff which sounds fantastical and is openly ridiculed by the world. Do I believe the Word? You bet I do. Do I care what the world thinks? not one bit.

So basically, I'm saying that I could well be becoming convinced of a YEC. And even more, I WANT to believe in it. Because, as far as I can see, it's the only theory which accepts that God did what He says He did. And there's nothing I want to believe more than that...

 

[mark kennedy]

Welcome to OT, I really enjoyed reading your post. John 1 is a foundational passage, it directly links the Gospel to Genesis 1. My experience has been that the proevolution crowd isn't terribly concerned about the Bible.

I don't know a whole lot about the age of the earth, my thing is the life sciences. So if you are ever interested in getting into genetics and how it relates to origins theology just let me know.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[vossler]

It's good to see a new face in here. Welcome TankGirl if there ever is anything that I can do to assist you please don't hesitate to ask.

I decided long ago (after coming to faith), that if I found myself disagreeing with something in Scripture, it didn't make it wrong, it just meant that my understanding was at fault. Somehow, I never seemed to get round to applying that to Creation!

Thankfully you eventually did. Praise be to God!

I have found myself, today, constantly thinking of Babel, and how man is so convinced of his own brilliance that he can build something to reach God. How science feels the need to explain everything and have all the answers all the time. And I have noticed a smugness and superiority towards YEC adherants.

No doubt this is true, but remember most of those who trust science over God's Word do so out of pride. It's another way that they must submit and submission isn't easy, so be gentle with them.

But what I find perhaps the most convincing is the arguments made by evolutionists. I have read all day arguments that follow this pattern... "Scientific evidence says this, so God's word cannot be literal". And I'm horrified! I don't wish to appear some ignorant, uneducated neanderthal (sorry ), but I am just not prepared to "interpret" Scripture to fit some worldly model, no matter how convincing that may be. My Bible says a whole lot of stuff which sounds fantastical and is openly ridiculed by the world. Do I believe the Word? You bet I do. Do I care what the world thinks? not one bit.

Given that the evolutionary arguments all stem from speculation and conjecture I just don't entertain them. If they then wish to view me as ignorant that's o.k. with me because I seek the Truth above the accolades of the world.

So basically, I'm saying that I could well be becoming convinced of a YEC. And even more, I WANT to believe in it. Because, as far as I can see, it's the only theory which accepts that God did what He says He did. And there's nothing I want to believe more than that...

The reason you want to believe is because the Holy Spirit still has a hold on you and you haven't submitted yourself to the god of science. Just keep trusting God and His Word and you will never go wrong.

Now I'd like to give you a bit of advice. If your faith is strong then I think you will find the time here to be educational and hopefully edifying. I've learned a lot in my time here about how evolutionists think and believe the time was at times frustrating but overall well served. In addition it has helped solidify my own faith in God and His Word. However, if your faith isn't very strong, let me recommend that you not spend much time here because the lies of Satan are easy to take in, digest and become a part of you. Once you've swallowed the lie it becomes very difficult to extricate from your soul. That's how lies are, they appeal to our flesh and then ensnare us.

May God bless you in your journey for the truth and once again welcome!

 

[busterdog]

Well, Tank Girl, that just about says it all!

Everything you put in the OP is bedrock to me.

I will say that when you sift through all the evidence, there is just a huge, huge, huge volume of evidence on all different issues. To think that it can all be assimilated is really very, very optimistic.

I remember arguing with Glen Morton about these limestone caverns and the estblished rate for the dissolution of the rock over the eons. I just have no answer for how a limestone cavern can be created, collapse and re-created in the same area without millions of years. I just remind myself that this is only one piece of evidence and there is lots more suggesting a different conclusion.

And of course, Genesis 1 is pretty good evidence.

 

[TankGirl]

Welcome to OT, I really enjoyed reading your post. John 1 is a foundational passage, it directly links the Gospel to Genesis 1. My experience has been that the proevolution crowd isn't terribly concerned about the Bible.

I don't know a whole lot about the age of the earth, my thing is the life sciences. So if you are ever interested in getting into genetics and how it relates to origins theology just let me know.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Thank you so much! I've been away for the weekend, and it's lovely to come home to such warm & welcoming comments

I would absolutely LOVE to hear more evidence for YEC. I have found, from the few short hours of reading I put in, that there is a phenomonal amount of information on every side of the debate, but I would appreciate it very much if any of you who feel inclined could post some of the more basic fundamentals (in not TOO overly technical terms for someone a long time out of school ). I do love learning facts, but don't have a great deal of free time, so if you can summarise stuff, and maybe show me where I could find more in depth stuff, that would be great.

Thanks you all again for taking the time to read my vague ramblings and being so kind.

 

[mark kennedy]

That is from the Human Genome Project and they have some wonderful educational material. You will notice that the site is creation/evolution neutral but don't let that distract you, virtually all of science is.

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/graphics/slides/images1.shtml

This site is totally Christian friendly and here's a big hint, there are two main bodies of thought in the life sciences. There is Mendel and there is Darwin. The two are supposed to be blended together but I am convinced that they could not have both been right. This is from Charles Darwin's on the Origin of Species:

Now you don't have to do a whole lot of reading to realize that the diagram indicates the lines all descent back to a single common ancestor, some kind of unicellular bacteria and fauna. What is the problem from a scientific frame of reference you might well be wondering?

See my signature.

Grace and peace,
Mark

P.S. I wanted to add this since it was a Landmark essay that opened the whole creation/evolution debate up for me in a profound way. This guy is highly qualified to make philosophical insights into some of the underlying themes in modern Darwinism. I encourage you to take a look at the essay and see if there is anything here to help you on your journey through this highly contentious issue.

http://www.arn.org/docs/nelson/pn_jettison.htm

 

[Samantha4JC]

mark,can a someone who knows little about science go to this site and be able to understand it?

 

[Floodnut]

There are many possible views of the evidence of the Natural world. However, the correct approach to Scripture is to follow the simple sense and to see as the rest of Scripture sees it. To follow the interpretive method of inspired biblical writers, and of course the method of Jesus himself. It is called the Grammitical Historical Approach.
It is like people in court today assuming that just because someone is found not guilty on some technicality, or because of some vaguely possible alibi, then it must mean that they are "Not Guilty". So it is with far-fetched interpretations that are all about trying to accommodate evolution. They try to make the Bible agree with their supposed "evidence." But it is not the evidence that they bow down to, rather it is a false view of origins that they worship.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

Welcome to the site Tankgirl. I think you would find The Answers Book helpful. Answers In Genesis has made it free to read online and it's easy to understand and covers all sorts of questions you might have.