Infinity

[relaxeus]

I was thinking the other day about the possibility that space is infinite. Imagine looking into the sky, choosing a direction to go, and then setting off and going in that direction forever and ever. You would never reach the end. Even if you travelled extremely fast (say at the speed of light multiplied by 1 million billion trillon zillion, something ridiculously fast), you would still never reach any kind of ending of space. On your journey you would pass countless universes. In fact, the number of universes would also be infinite because space is infinite.

Across infinite space, and an infinite number of universes, if you travelled long enough, you would come across a universe exactly identical to ours. And universes exactly identical to ours would also be infinite. An infinte number of relaxeus' typing this exact same thing at this very moment - as well as an infinite number of relaxeus' who had written this exact same post 5 minutes ago, and 37 seconds ago, and 12 days into the future. In such a reality of infinite space, every single realistically possible formation of universes would come into being - an infinite number of times. Every single possible outcome!! Even all the choices you have made in your life, what kind of cloths you wore on certain days, who you married, who your friends were - there would be an infinite number of unvierses in which you had exhausted every single possibility during your life. Every possibility, across infinite space and universes, would occur an infinite number of times.

Thoughts?

 

[moogoob]

Ouch, my brain hurts.
Infinity is a big concept, no pun intended. I tend not to dwell on it too much, as our own perception is finite and therefore not that well equipped to deal with it.

 

[Catholicism]

I think a belief in whether an infinite multitude is possible or not is relevent as to whether or not you believe in a first cause. This is because if you believe in a first cause, then it would require this infinite multitude to pass through an infinite medium, which would mean an actulalization of infinity. Count to infinity and I'll believe you. Though I did hear Chuck Norris did it twice or something.

 

[JonF]

Thoughts?

Infinite space or universes doesn’t imply that anything about what those universes contain. Also I think you don’t have a very good understanding of infinity as a mathematical concept.

 

[relaxeus]

Infinity is a big concept, no pun intended. I tend not to dwell on it too much, as our own perception is finite and therefore not that well equipped to deal with it.

I know what you mean. Trying to understand it isn't easy. I think we have to drop our regular method of perception and opt for a simpler, instead of more complicated, approach.

 

[relaxeus]

I think a belief in whether an infinite multitude is possible or not is relevent as to whether or not you believe in a first cause. This is because if you believe in a first cause, then it would require this infinite multitude to pass through an infinite medium, which would mean an actulalization of infinity. Count to infinity and I'll believe you. Though I did hear Chuck Norris did it twice or something.

Yeah, first cause is important to this idea. Personally, I don't believe in a first cause. Even though our minds are hardwired to understand things as having a beginning, that theory makes no sense, really. If there was nothing, then there would always be nothing. Something cannot possibly come out of nothing. Therefore, there had to have always been something. And if this theory of infinity is right, then there has always been an infinity of all things.

 

[relaxeus]

Infinite space or universes doesn’t imply that anything about what those universes contain.

Sure it does. It implies that there are an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of formations.

Also I think you don’t have a very good understanding of infinity as a mathematical concept.

A mathematical concept? Isn't infinity beyond math? I mean, you wouldn't sit by your calculator and notebook and try to solve a problem that would take an eternity to solve would you?

 

[Catholicism]

Yeah, first cause is important to this idea. Personally, I don't believe in a first cause. Even though our minds are hardwired to understand things as having a beginning, that theory makes no sense, really. If there was nothing, then there would always be nothing. Something cannot possibly come out of nothing. Therefore, there had to have always been something. And if this theory of infinity is right, then there has always been an infinity of all things.

Huh? Saying there is a first cause is saying that this first cause is the thing that existed that caused everything else. Saying that there is a first cause does not imply that something can come from nothing. So I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Even if space were infinite [a concept which I do not think anyone can fully grasp] I do not see the need for there to be infinite universes or even more than one universe for that matter. Is it not just as possible that the universe is also infinite?

 

[Sojourner<><]

I dunno about infinite infinity but I seem to recall something from about our universe supposedly being curved. If you were to throw a baseball into space in a perfectly straight trajectory and wait where you are for an indefinate amount of time, theoretically it could eventually come back to hit you in the head without ever changing its course. So then wouldn't that mean that at least our universe is finite?

 

[mikenet2006]

I was thinking the other day about the possibility that space is infinite. Imagine looking into the sky, choosing a direction to go, and then setting off and going in that direction forever and ever. You would never reach the end. Even if you travelled extremely fast (say at the speed of light multiplied by 1 million billion trillon zillion, something ridiculously fast), you would still never reach any kind of ending of space. On your journey you would pass countless universes. In fact, the number of universes would also be infinite because space is infinite.

Across infinite space, and an infinite number of universes, if you travelled long enough, you would come across a universe exactly identical to ours. And universes exactly identical to ours would also be infinite. An infinte number of relaxeus' typing this exact same thing at this very moment - as well as an infinite number of relaxeus' who had written this exact same post 5 minutes ago, and 37 seconds ago, and 12 days into the future. In such a reality of infinite space, every single realistically possible formation of universes would come into being - an infinite number of times. Every single possible outcome!! Even all the choices you have made in your life, what kind of cloths you wore on certain days, who you married, who your friends were - there would be an infinite number of unvierses in which you had exhausted every single possibility during your life. Every possibility, across infinite space and universes, would occur an infinite number of times.

Thoughts?

Wow, that is deep. Are we related? Just kidding but I think about things like that all the time. All that I believe to be true.

If I owned Spaceball 1 from the movie Spaceballs, and I could go faster than the speed of light using ludicrous speed id still never find the end of the universe, because there is no end.

If you never saw that movie your probably scratching your head, but I loved it

 

[Soul Searcher]

I dunno about infinite infinity but I seem to recall something from about our universe supposedly being curved. If you were to throw a baseball into space in a perfectly straight trajectory and wait where you are for an indefinate amount of time, theoretically it could eventually come back to hit you in the head without ever changing its course. So then wouldn't that mean that at least our universe is finite?

What you have stated is just a theory or perhaps just an idea. Certianly if that concept were accurate then that would imply finite universe but to the best of my knowledge no one has ever found edges of our universe, no one has ever proven that our universe has a begining, and end, a left, right, top, or bottom. nor that there is anything in existance that is not within the universe much less other universes. There are theories and speculation as to what might be but there does not seem to be much to back them up.

As for the idea of something traveling without ever changing course and returning to where it once was is kinda odd to me. Logically it woudl seem that gravity could/would alter the objects course so as to force it into a circular or elipitcal orbit of sorts but imo this would mean its actual course would be in a constant state of change.

 

[relaxeus]

Huh? Saying there is a first cause is saying that this first cause is the thing that existed that caused everything else. Saying that there is a first cause does not imply that something can come from nothing. So I'm not sure what your point is.

I was thinking of something else. Nevermind. I understand what you mean. I don't think that there was a first cause. Instead, it seems that there must have been an infinite number of causes which brought about certain things, such as universes. So, the big band multiplied by infinity. This seems true to me because if there was one first cause, why would there not be others? If the nature of existence is such that the conditions for a certain cause were met at one point in space, then they must have also been met elsewhere, an inifinte number of times, according to that same nature.

 

[relaxeus]

Even if space were infinite [a concept which I do not think anyone can fully grasp] I do not see the need for there to be infinite universes or even more than one universe for that matter. Is it not just as possible that the universe is also infinite?

There is a great deal of scientific evidence supporting the big band. If there was a beginning to our universe then it can't be infinite in space. The substance that our universe is made of, however, could have existed across infinite time, being part of such events as the big bang every so often or just floating through infinity.

 

[Soul Searcher]

There is a great deal of scientific evidence supporting the big band. If there was a beginning to our universe then it can't be infinite in space. The substance that our universe is made of, however, could have existed across infinite time, being part of such events as the big bang every so often or just floating through infinity.

I would think that the big bang, the energy/material that composed the big bang was still part of the universe. I do not see this as a valid explanantion as to the begining of the universe itself but perhaps the beginging of the current motion of the universe. That said I also don't put a lot of stock in the overall theory of the big bang it seems to consist of a bunch of assumptions based on a few observations.

If there really was a big bang that has shaped what we now see then it would seem likely that the big bang happened at the center of our universe.. I have heard it said that our universe is getting bigger and may someday collaspe into itself and perhaps a new big bang to start the process over. It seems however that this is all based on the concept that they "think" the glaxies are drifting apart. I find it unlikely that this is very well supported considering how they say the nearest galaxies are several light years away and we have no way of really measuring these distances that I know of. Logically if a planet was 100 light years away and we tried to measure that distance it would take 200 years to get the result and since we have not had the technology that long I think that what we are seeing often presented as fact is someones best guess.

Add to that that no one has ever discovered the boundries of the universe it would seem impossible to prove that it was getting larger or smaller and really amounts to nothing more than a wild guess based on evidence that amounts to far less than a drop of water in the ocean.

 

[relaxeus]

I would think that the big bang, the energy/material that composed the big bang was still part of the universe. I do not see this as a valid explanantion as to the begining of the universe itself but perhaps the beginging of the current motion of the universe.

Right. There really can't be a beginning to our universe because it isn't as if the universe came from nothing. The material/energy must always have existed and it came together in such a way as to create our universe somehow. And as you say, right now our universe is in a certain phase of some kind.

If there really was a big bang that has shaped what we now see then it would seem likely that the big bang happened at the center of our universe.. I have heard it said that our universe is getting bigger and may someday collaspe into itself and perhaps a new big bang to start the process over. It seems however that this is all based on the concept that they "think" the glaxies are drifting apart. I find it unlikely that this is very well supported considering how they say the nearest galaxies are several light years away and we have no way of really measuring these distances that I know of. Logically if a planet was 100 light years away and we tried to measure that distance it would take 200 years to get the result and since we have not had the technology that long I think that what we are seeing often presented as fact is someones best guess.

Add to that that no one has ever discovered the boundries of the universe it would seem impossible to prove that it was getting larger or smaller and really amounts to nothing more than a wild guess based on evidence that amounts to far less than a drop of water in the ocean.

I'm no physicist, but I'm gonna do a bit of research on this and write a post about what I've found out. I've been reading through stephen hawkings "universe in a nutshell" and he supports an infiinte number of possibilities as well. He also claims that through various calculations scientists have been able to figure out that the galaxies are moving farther apart, even though he does not mention how. I'm inclined to believe it because a physicist of his reputation surely wouldn't fill one of his books with lies, which would discredit him big time.

 

[joe754]

Hmm . . .
Infinite universes sounds very possible.

I find myself remember something from the book We by Yevgeny Zamyatin, from the last page of the second to last chapter.
This guy says that if the universe were infinite, the mean density of matter should equal zero. And since it isn't, then that must mean that it is finite.

However, if there's infinite volume of universes, then there's infinite mass of matter, and infinity divided by infinity is an infinite series of random numbers, right?

That guy was assuming one universe and not an infinity of universes however, so does that mean that a number divided by infinity is zero, or what?

Bleh, I never took calculus or whatever.

 

[Sojourner<><]

What you have stated is just a theory or perhaps just an idea. Certianly if that concept were accurate then that would imply finite universe but to the best of my knowledge no one has ever found edges of our universe, no one has ever proven that our universe has a begining, and end, a left, right, top, or bottom. nor that there is anything in existance that is not within the universe much less other universes. There are theories and speculation as to what might be but there does not seem to be much to back them up.

As for the idea of something traveling without ever changing course and returning to where it once was is kinda odd to me. Logically it woudl seem that gravity could/would alter the objects course so as to force it into a circular or elipitcal orbit of sorts but imo this would mean its actual course would be in a constant state of change.

I think it was einstein that discovered that gravity can actually 'bend' space... i.e. a light object behind a massive dark object can still be seen. I'm very rusty with my physics though so I could be wrong.

 

[Merlin]

If we assume infinite.
But that's a big if.

Then we must assume no outside forces can effect any of the universes.
We must assume there is no God.

Then such possibilities begin to exist.

Big ifs.

 

[Soul Searcher]

If we assume infinite.
But that's a big if.

Then we must assume no outside forces can effect any of the universes.
We must assume there is no God.

Then such possibilities begin to exist.

Big ifs.

Unless of course that we assume that God is the all in all, infinite eternal source of all things. Wether there be one infinite universe, or infinite space containing multipile or even infinite universes would not make a difference to this conception.

Our universe is huge to say the least. that does not mean it is infinite nor does it mean that it is not. Likewise a finite or infinite space and/or universe does not prove nor disprove the existance of God.