Infertility Question

[Flipper]

I know it is an extremely personal question, but the beauty of a semi-anomynous board is that we can ask the questions we wouldn't ask our friends or loved ones for fear of what they would think. The people on the board who know me well, already know we are going through this, and love us the same no matter what.

Say you find out you can't conceive through natural means and were given the following choices:

isemination through a donor
adoption
not having children altogether

insemination is less expensive and can be quicker. Adoption costs more and would take more time. With insemination, at least one parent would be biological. With adoption, you are helping a child already born. In just not having children, we can continue the status quo - not necessarily a bad thing, but there would definitely be something missing.

I guess what I want to know, is do you think it's selfish to try insemination first, with adoption as a last resort?

I'm putting this here instead of the parenting forum because I also want the input of those who don't have children as well - and I want some male input too.

 

[Picture.Of.Obedience]

I like the idea of adoption, but invitro doesnt sound too bad, isnt it spendy, (and not guarenteed to work??) i dont know.....

well i pray for God to bless you in whatever you do.

 

[GirlieGirl]

I'd adopt - so many precious kids out there that are suffering for lack of a good home.

 

[Leanna]

I don't know much about this obviously but I have a question, with in vitro would that mean you get a sperm donor and carry the baby? Or would he donate sperm and someone else carry the baby? Or would he donate sperm and someone else an egg and you would carry the baby? Which one is being done changes my opinion because I read this horrible story about a couple whose husband donated sperm and a woman carried the child but then when it came time to give the baby up she didn't want to.

 

[Flipper]

I would be carrying the baby.

 

[Leanna]

I think you should give it a try then because it is an amazing experience, but that way sure is expensive. If you can though, good luck

 

[HonorTruth]

Dear Flipper:

You are asking a hard question, but when looking at IVF, please be aware of some significant issues from a Christian worldview perspective. First, the origin of the gametes is an issue. Assuming the cells are your eggs and your husband's sperm, this is less of an issue. Your statement that "at least one" of you would be biological parents is my concern. The use of donor sperm is problemmatic for several reasons. Second, what about the moral status of the embryos produced? Are you and your husband fully committed to implanting all of the embryos, leaving no fertilized embryos behind, frozen, or destroyed? Third, what about selective reduction? These are abortions commonly advised by doctors in the case of multiple pregnancies [very likely in IVF procedures]. This means that some babies will be killed in order to allow for the thriving of the survivor fetuses. Given the Bible's clear teaching about the sanctity of human life, these are huge issues. As a matter of fact, many fertility clinincs and IVF doctors will not accept patients who will not agree to the selective reduction procedure in advance.

I do hope this helps. My wife and I also struggled with infertility. This is some of the information we had to struggle with. IVF was just not an option under these circumstances. May God grant you and your husband your deepest yearnings in a way that brings Him greatest glory.
Faithfully,
HonorTruth

 

[selune]

I was just going to say what Honortruth so clearly said. IVF has that serious drawback of creating more embryos than used. I also thought IVF was pretty expensive. If you think about adoption, think about a child from another country as an option. There are many children overseas who will never have parents otherwise.

 

[Flipper]

Honortruth, forgive me, I made a huge mistake in terminology. We are considering artifiicial insemmination, not IVP. I get those two mixed up and I'll never get it right!

My understanding is that the chances of twins will go up to 15% because I'll have to take fertility medicine. Tripletts go up only 3%. Twins, we can handle. More than that, we will have to because I don't think we can selectively abort. Friends of ours with the same problems we have went through it, and have a healthy son and daughter - not twins. Insemmination is also considerably cheaper than adoption if it works the first or second time.

If it comes to IVP in it's correct definition, I don't think we'll do that for the reasons you expressed, but I don't know where hubby and I will be in the process by then either.

 

[HonorTruth]

Dear Flipper:
Thanks much for the clarification. I offer the following just in the hope of being helpful, since this is an area of great concern and interest. The use of artificial insemination as a technique for assisted reproduction is, as you suggest, less morally complicated that IVF in some ways, but it can be equally complicated in others. Since the issue in AI is usually--by definition--an issue with the husband's sperm, the key distinction here is between AI using the husband's sperm and AI using donor sperm [AID]. The use of AI with the husband's sperm may assist in achieving pregnancy by sorting the sperm for motility [usually by microscopic evaluation] in order to choose the best prospects for fertilization, or it may assist in overcoming other problems such as adverse chemical reactions in the wife's membranes or problems in getting the sperm to the egg. The use of the husband's sperm in the AI process represents the lowest ethical risk and complication. As a pastor and ethicist, I recommend that the couple combine this form of AI with sexual intercourse in order to bring the marital act into the act of reproduction. Medical advice about this in each case is important. The issue is to make the process as natural as possible. I think it is also important for each child to know--in the right way and at the right time--that he/she was conceived in an act of marital love between the parents. This is not always possible, but I believe it is optimal, and most couples I have dealt with about this have felt the same.

AID is more complicated, and I would just warn you to be very thoughtful about this. AID, by definition, involves the use of another man's sperm. Some ethicists consider this a form of gamete adultery--bringing another man's genetic material into the marital relationship. Some would reject this judgment. In almost every case, there may be some real issues on the part of the husband. No one should suggest that these cannot be overcome, but I would counsel real consideration here. There are also ethical and legal issues involving the donor of the sperm and the rights of the child to know the biological father, etc. Make sure you take all of this into full consideration. On the legal side, and attorney would be very helpful. On the moral side, I hope you have a biblically-committed pastor who can advise with real Christian truth as his foundation.

As I closed my previous message, I pray that God will grant your deepest desire in a way that brings Him greatest glory. Your message helped me to pray for you again.


Faithfully,
HonorTruth

 

[Flipper]

AID is more complicated, and I would just warn you to be very thoughtful about this. AID, by definition, involves the use of another man's sperm. Some ethicists consider this a form of gamete adultery--bringing another man's genetic material into the marital relationship. Some would reject this judgment. In almost every case, there may be some real issues on the part of the husband. No one should suggest that these cannot be overcome, but I would counsel real consideration here. There are also ethical and legal issues involving the donor of the sperm and the rights of the child to know the biological father, etc. Make sure you take all of this into full consideration. On the legal side, and attorney would be very helpful. On the moral side, I hope you have a biblically-committed pastor who can advise with real Christian truth as his foundation.

Thank you for your kind words and prayers. Everything you said, especially the above, has been extremely informative.

 

[Leanna]

HonorTruth, thanks for writing that because I had never even thought of ethical complications of this nature. I do think each person has to follow their own conscience though and some people may not have issues with another man's sperm being used. Most men want to be fathers at some point and this will help them become a father. You said, "In almost every case, there may be some real issues on the part of the husband." but I think is it likely that Flipper and her husband both want to be parents and I doubt she is coercing him into it unwillingly.

 

[Flipper]

My husband has made it pretty clear that he's upset that he has the problem, but has no problem with going with donor sperm if it comes to it.

However, I can see men having a problem with this, and I think what HonorTruth was saying was just as much for the benefit of anyone who reads this, as it is for me. I too, didn't think through the ethical or spiritual concerns as much as we should have (I work for lawyers, so I've done lots of thinking about the legal). We have a lot of praying to do.

 

[charligirl]

What a tough decision. I know a couple who has been in this place and they refused every option but prayer, even when all around them were telling them to go for various artificial options - after seven years they have conceived naturally (total miracle as doctors said it was impossible) and given birth to a beautiful baby.

You don't say whether you have tried/considered this as an option.. forgive me if you have done so on another thread, but this is the first one i have read.

I think there are many moral and ethical issues about donor sperm and eggs, christian morality aside there are genetic issues to consider... the issue of the child growing up never knowing totally where they came from or who their natural father was, however wonderful the parents are this is still a serious, serious issue which could throw up all sorts of insecurities and questions later in life. There is also the problem of unknown hereditary conditions and even the possiblity of one day marrying your half sibling (if the donor was a regular donor!!)

Adoption obviously has many challenges, but is totally morally and ethically sound as far as I can see.

 

[desi]

I think you should give it a try then because it is an amazing experience, but that way sure is expensive. If you can though, good luck

Expensive? I heard of a couple who used the husbands brother as donor and a turkey baster to deliver the load, it worked...

 

[Flipper]

Expensive? I heard of a couple who used the husbands brother as donor and a turkey baster to deliver the load, it worked...

True story. A friend of ours had tried, and when they both got checked out to see what was wrong, it was found that while the husband had sperm, the means to send the sperm did not exist in his body, and the cost to retrieve the sperm from him would make a private adoption look cheap. He had wanted my husband and a few male friends to, er, donate, and it would then be mixed up and the turkey baster used, the idea being that no one would know who the real father was (unless genetic tests were used).

His wife wasn't real keen to the idea so they did insemmination with donor sperm and had two healthy babies.

 

[Flipper]

What a tough decision. I know a couple who has been in this place and they refused every option but prayer, even when all around them were telling them to go for various artificial options - after seven years they have conceived naturally (total miracle as doctors said it was impossible) and given birth to a beautiful baby.

You don't say whether you have tried/considered this as an option.. forgive me if you have done so on another thread, but this is the first one i have read.

That is still most definitely an option.

 

[Lorie]

Get insemminated and have a baby then adopt one!