Wrong. Monk Brendan made the affirmation. You have nothing to contribute.Nice job at attempting to move the goalposts
But no.
Affirmanti incumbit probatio.
YOU are the one who claims that oikos does not include infants for some magical reason. YOU are the one who needs to provide proof of this argument.
Until then, you're *beep* out of an argument.
Wrong. Monk Brendan made the affirmation. You have nothing to contribute.
No, our "conversation" commenced with you claiming: "The Roman Pater Familias was the head of the ENTIRE household - slaves, children, infants, etc, all of it."In the conversation between you and me, you are the one who made the claim. Therefore, you are the one on whom the burden of proof falls.
Just curious for those that believe in infant baptism, sprinkling, etc where did this idea come from since Jesus himself was not baptized until he was around 29-30?
Just to point out , when Jesus was baptized, He was fully immersed in the water.
No sprinkling of water.
Why do you believe something for which there is no scriptural support ... only inferential "possibilities"? To hold to your tradition?
That's not comparable. It says anyone who believes. That obviously doesn't exclude elderly persons. Using your reasoning here, it would be okay to baptize them even if they don't consent (if they are perhaps suffering from dementia). While we don't know whether infants were included in households on all occasions (or even if the oikos ever included infants in its definition) we do know that scripture commands to "believe and be baptized." So I am back to thinking that this might be more about finding scripture to justify a tradition.There's no scriptural support for baptizing the elderly. If we are looking for explicit statements on all possibilities in Scripture then I'm afraid that we are going to have to do away with a lot of things--such as Scripture itself. So perhaps going down that particular line of reasoning may not be the best option.
-CryptoLutheran
That's not comparable. It says anyone who believes. That obviously doesn't exclude elderly persons. Using your reasoning here, it would be okay to baptize them even if they don't consent (if they are perhaps suffering from dementia). While we don't know whether infants were included in households on all occasions (or even if the oikos ever included infants in its definition) we do know that scripture commands to "believe and be baptized." So I am back to thinking that this might be more about finding scripture to justify a tradition.
"... because my tradition says an infant has faith".
Definitely tradition and definitely not Scriptural .
Talk about adding to The Holy Word of God.
Infant baptism = infant getting wet.
My statement was 100% accurate.Baseless statement is baseless.
-CryptoLutheran
Actually it doesn't. You've misread Ephesians. Check a scholarly commentary to see what the "gift of God" refers to. So you seriously believe, to protect your tradition of men, that a baby can hear the Word of God and believe? Are you serious? No, a baby cannot hear. Paul said, How can they hear without a preacher. He said that if you speak an unknown tongue, no-one understands. Yet you think a baby that doesn't even know any words yet can hear and believe?Because Scripture declares that faith is a gift which is apart from ourselves, and this gift is attached to Word and Sacrament.
My statement was 100% accurate.
Infant "baptism " = infant getting WET
Let me ask you a question, what does infant baptism represent and bring about?
And, can you back it up with The Word of God?
But an infant can't choose to follow Christ..that's my issue with infant baptism...is suppose to be a sign you have accepted Christ and are a believer...infants just coo, poop, eat, and sleepThe same thing as baptism for anyone, new birth in Christ. John 3:5
-CryptoLutheran
But an infant can't choose to follow Christ..that's my issue with infant baptism...is suppose to be a sign you have accepted Christ and are a believer...infants just coo, poop, eat, and sleep
And for the record, children being saved at an early age don't just say Jesus loves me...they are led down the Roman road like any other ..at least in my experience of churches anyway...
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