Infant Baptism

[Rev Randy]

The BTK killer was lutheran, he was baptized and president of His Church. But he didnt have the spirit. Im the opposite, perhaps God will use my testimony to shut his mouth on judgment day when he says "did i not get baptized in your name?"

Just something to ponder.

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Without a doubt , there are counterfeits among us. It shows me something important. We are not good judges. But that's fine.

 

[Lion King]

Seriously, go to Jn.3:5 and remove "H2O" from the equation, then my former statement is invalid. You can come after me and/or my words due to nothing you and Jerry can do to change my opinion of you folks really caring for the Word.

Here's the thing though, none of the holy folks in the Old Testament were baptized in water, yet God considers them as His own? Are you saying that these people were saved in a different way than we are today? If so, how were they saved?

One has to be not only water baptized, eg, Jn.3:5 only for starters, then be baptized in the Genuine NAME (revelation) that the Triune God's personal Name stands or falls on. You will be forced to reject this due to the time you were born into; however you cannot say that I didn't do my best to bring this to you folks attention. Been spewing this out for almost 3 decades now and only about a little less than a 1,000 heard me and less than 100 of those realized the 'spewing' with my end point: This is the reason I'm not a modern Lutheran as they baptize in a another name, yet use the same Personal Name.

Doesn't Romans 2:12-16 say that those who do not know Christ, but instinctively keep the commandments of God will be received into the Kingdom of God? Where does this leave your doctrine?

How else is the Holy Spirit going to indwell these little infants other than water baptism, eg, Jn.3:5; Matt.28:19 & good ol' Acts 2:39. :o just your ol' old friend Jack

But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple courts, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were indignant.

“Do you hear what these children are saying?” they asked him.

“Yes,” replied Jesus, “have you never read,

“‘From the lips of children and infants
you, Lord, have called forth your praise’?” - Matthew 21:15-16


God gives His Spirit to every infant born into this world, regardless of whether they have been water baptized or not. All children belong to the LORD whether born of pagans, atheists, Christians etc.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Some might, BrotherDC.

Some who repent change their mind later and walk away from faith in Jesus Christ.

Nothing in creation is unchangeable except perhaps for Jesus Christ.

God bless.

You just exploded blessed assurance and OSAS. I think Eddie Money doesn't really have those two tickets.

Two Tickets to Paradise-Eddie Money 1978 - YouTube

Oh darn!

Now what will those OSAS folk do?

I most humbly apologise for exposing OSAS as an error.

 

[BrotherDC]

Without a doubt , there are counterfeits among us. It shows me something important. We are not good judges. But that's fine.

Please dont take me wrong, i wasn't cutting down Lutherans, i know every group has good and bad elements, i was just saying that without faith baptism is useless and faith without works is dead. And faith doesnt need water, it needs trust, i trust that the Lord will guide me. Maybe God has a purpose for all this.

 

[holyrokker]

You just exploded blessed assurance and OSAS. I think Eddie Money doesn't really have those two tickets.

Two Tickets to Paradise-Eddie Money 1978 - YouTube

I wonder how that walking on water thing is going for Eddie. I'll bet he's gotten wet trying.

Eddie Money - If I Could Walk On Water - YouTube

 

[BrotherDC]

Reminds me of GT a little, looks like a good movie too.


The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - Official Teaser Trailer [HD] - YouTube

 

[BrotherDC]

Eddie Money ~ Gimme' Some Water with lyrics - YouTube

 

[shturt678]

Here's the thing though, none of the holy folks in the Old Testament were baptized in water, yet God considers them as His own? Are you saying that these people were saved in a different way than we are today? If so, how were they saved?

The old covenant of circumcision which was given to Abe and was a true sacramental seal of justification by faith - the anticipation of water baptism connected with justification by faith. Secondly in the O.T. all were baptized to Moses in the cloud or to that effect, etc. being analogous to Christian water baptism without neglecting what separated Noah from that wicked generation, ie, means of H2O.

Doesn't Romans 2:12-16 say that those who do not know Christ, but instinctively keep the commandments of God will be received into the Kingdom of God? Where does this leave your doctrine?

Most could care less, even on these threads, still bothers me why you should even care? Great! You bit off a big chunk hence let's eyeball just Rom.2:12-14 for now, ie, "doers of law" are those who by faith and a new heart way wayyy wayyyyy back there before the Great White Throne Judgment, ie, at 'instant of faith' followed by a water baptism hence in the Kingdom of God, then croak, and immediately awake in heaven as a person less the body awaiting for Rom.2:12-16. These actually do what God bids and by their doing, ie, including keeping the N.T. commandments of God, demonstrate their faith so that in the public judgment at the last day God can point to their works as the evidence on which his righteoussness acquits and must acquit them.

But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple courts, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were indignant.

“Do you hear what these children are saying?” they asked him.

“Yes,” replied Jesus, “have you never read,

“‘From the lips of children and infants
you, Lord, have called forth your praise’?” - Matthew 21:15-16


God gives His Spirit to every infant born into this world, regardless of whether they have been water baptized or not. All children belong to the LORD whether born of pagans, atheists, Christians etc.

I know it's going to be absolutely impossible to accept my interpretation of Scriptures but you cannot ever say that I didn't give it my best shot. Thank you again for actually caring for the Word. I give you credit for this for sure. Hopefully just believe in Jesus and you have your ticket to heaven. I never did believe that nor till today believe it.

 

[Rev Randy]

Please dont take me wrong, i wasn't cutting down Lutherans, i know every group has good and bad elements, i was just saying that without faith baptism is useless and faith without works is dead. And faith doesnt need water, it needs trust, i trust that the Lord will guide me. Maybe God has a purpose for all this.

I didn't take it as a cut down toward Lutherans. It was the truth and could have happened in any church.

Trust is a good thing when dealing with such an awesome God. His written word and His Word Jesus Christ, tell us what baptism is for. Trust Him. Water in and of itself is simply water. Not let God move upon the water and it's (His) healing is miraculous. Jesus said seek and you shall find. If you seek a spiritual experience in your baptism, Jesus will not let you down. If your just seeking an outward sign, it can go either way. I was an outward sign believer but my baptism changed me.
Like you my thoughts were of obedience concerning baptism. But I had this overwhelming desire to be baptized right away. I pestered the pastor time and time again. He was wanting to wait for warmer weather as we used a spring fed creek. He kept trying to assure me that it wasn't a rush as "Baptism was not a salvation issue". After a month of me calling him daily and finally asking him if I needed to have it done elsewhere, he relented and I was baptized. The spiritual experience did not just come upon me. The pastor also had an experience that changed his mind unto this day.He even asked me what I prayed beforehand. My prayer was a very simple prayer: "Father, Show me the truth."
So what should one seeking Baptism expect? The same thing that occurred when Christ was baptized: The Holy Spirit and a Father who is well pleased. The difference is that we have need to die and be reborn. Which is also Christlike.
I don't expect you to agree.But I hope you will pray about it seeking God's will.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Some might, BrotherDC.

Some who repent change their mind later and walk away from faith in Jesus Christ.

Nothing in creation is unchangeable except perhaps for Jesus Christ.

God bless.

Originally Posted by Rev Randy

You just exploded blessed assurance and OSAS. I think Eddie Money doesn't really have those two tickets.
​

Oh darn!

Now what will those OSAS folk do?

I most humbly apologise for exposing OSAS as an error.

It appears the EOC agrees with thee on that

http://www.christianforums.com/t7540446/
Are we saved? Why the EO rejects OSAS?

Originally Posted by Philothei

How secure we are in knowing that we are saved... Are we in our journey ..And Why we believe what we do ?
​

I think because salvation is put in past, present, future, and eternal tenses, that kinda slams OSAS, at least how the West views it.

We can't be secure that we are saved. Judas believed? Yes! Was he saved? No!

Once have been baptized we can continue to commit sins. Once committed a sin how we can be sure in our salvation?

The Bible is against the idea of OSAS.

1 Corinthians 6,9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Are those words about non-believers only or about those who have been baptized as well?
Paul wrote his epistle to the church of Corinth. So he wrote to the church people.

Nevertheless in the same epistle we can find the confirmation that even brothers can commit such sins as written in previous quote.

1 Corinthians 5,9: I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person

.

 

[BrotherDC]

I didn't take it as a cut down toward Lutherans. It was the truth and could have happened in any church.

Trust is a good thing when dealing with such an awesome God. His written word and His Word Jesus Christ, tell us what baptism is for. Trust Him. Water in and of itself is simply water. Not let God move upon the water and it's (His) healing is miraculous. Jesus said seek and you shall find. If you seek a spiritual experience in your baptism, Jesus will not let you down. If your just seeking an outward sign, it can go either way. I was an outward sign believer but my baptism changed me.
Like you my thoughts were of obedience concerning baptism. But I had this overwhelming desire to be baptized right away. I pestered the pastor time and time again. He was wanting to wait for warmer weather as we used a spring fed creek. He kept trying to assure me that it wasn't a rush as "Baptism was not a salvation issue". After a month of me calling him daily and finally asking him if I needed to have it done elsewhere, he relented and I was baptized. The spiritual experience did not just come upon me. The pastor also had an experience that changed his mind unto this day.He even asked me what I prayed beforehand. My prayer was a very simple prayer: "Father, Show me the truth."
So what should one seeking Baptism expect? The same thing that occurred when Christ was baptized: The Holy Spirit and a Father who is well pleased. The difference is that we have need to die and be reborn. Which is also Christlike.
I don't expect you to agree.But I hope you will pray about it seeking God's will.

My dad believed in baptism, it was his dying wish that we all get baptized. Perhaps i should for God first, the church second and him third.

This song gets me, a horse to me represents my pride, i'll slap it in the rear and send it on its way, and run my race on foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zO7EEoUj4QU

 

[MercyandFaith]

Personally, I'm not sure how much baptism means if the person is too young to understand it.

 

[BrotherDC]

Actually i posted the wrong song, i meant this one

Eddie Money ~ Gimme' Some Water with lyrics - YouTube

 

[Rev Randy]

Personally, I'm not sure how much baptism means if the person is too young to understand it.

God means much to us and we don't truly understand Him. It's not about what it means to us. It's about what it means to God.

 

[MoreCoffee]

God means much to us and we don't truly understand Him. It's not about what it means to us. It's about what it means to God.

Catholics teach, from a practical perspective, the following about baptism:

"Holy Baptism holds the first place among the sacraments, because it Is the door of the spiritual life; for by it we are made members of Christ and incorporated with the Church. And since through the first man death entered into all, unless we be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, we cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven, as Truth Himself has told us.

The matter of this sacrament is true and natural water; and it is indifferent whether it be cold or hot. The form is:

I baptise thee in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.​

We do not, however, deny that the words:

Let this servant of Christ be baptised in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost;​

or:

This person is baptised by my hands in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost,​

constitute true baptism; because since the principal cause from which baptism has its efficacy is the Holy Trinity, and the instrumental cause is the minister who confers the sacrament exteriorly, then if the act exercised by the minister be expressed, together with the invocation of the Holy Trinity, the sacrament is perfected.

The minister of this sacrament is the priest, to whom it belongs to baptise, by reason of his office. In case of necessity, however, not only a priest or deacon, but even a layman or woman, nay, even a pagan or heretic can baptise, provided he observes the form used by the Church, and intends to perform what the Church performs.

The effect of this sacrament is the remission of all sin, original and actual; likewise of all punishment which is due for sin. As a consequence, no satisfaction for past sins is enjoined upon those who are baptised; and if they die before they commit any sin, they attain immediately to the kingdom of heaven and the vision of God," -- "The Decree for the Armenians" in the Bull "Exultate Deo" of Pope Eugene IV. It is often referred to as a decree of the Council of Florence.​

 

[shturt678]

Here's the thing though, none of the holy folks in the Old Testament were baptized in water, yet God considers them as His own? Are you saying that these people were saved in a different way than we are today? If so, how were they saved?



Doesn't Romans 2:12-16 say that those who do not know Christ, but instinctively keep the commandments of God will be received into the Kingdom of God? Where does this leave your doctrine?



But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple courts, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were indignant.

“Do you hear what these children are saying?” they asked him.

“Yes,” replied Jesus, “have you never read,

“‘From the lips of children and infants
you, Lord, have called forth your praise’?” - Matthew 21:15-16

God gives His Spirit to every infant born into this world, regardless of whether they have been water baptized or not. All children belong to the LORD whether born of pagans, atheists, Christians etc.

Even atheists? Was lol at you so hard and long that I know I offended God. Apologize to God first for lol at someone, and apologize to you for sinfully lol at you, ie, should have lol at your words only. I would like to respond but still lol at your words too much...so sorry. I still consider you a friend and will get a grip soon.

 

[Lion King]

Even atheists? Was lol at you so hard and long that I know I offended God. Apologize to God first for lol at someone, and apologize to you for sinfully lol at you, ie, should have lol at your words only. I would like to respond but still lol at your words too much...so sorry. I still consider you a friend and will get a grip soon.

Well, I hope you change your mind someday and realize that infants who die before reaching an age where they are able to learn the difference between right and wrong, will not be condemned simply because their parents were atheists or pagans. The Kingdom of God is for little children and those that are like them.

The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them. Ezekiel 18:20

 

[shturt678]

Well, I hope you change your mind someday and realize that infants who die before reaching an age where they are able to learn the difference between right and wrong, will not be condemned simply because their parents were atheists or pagans. The Kingdom of God is for little children and those that are like them.

The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them. Ezekiel 18:20

Thank you again my friend.

 

[RisingSpirit]

74. Q.
Should infants, too, be baptized?
A.
Yes.
Infants as well as adults
belong to God's covenant and congregation. 1
Through Christ's blood
the redemption from sin
and the Holy Spirit, who works faith,
are promised to them
no less than to adults. 2
Therefore, by baptism, as sign of the covenant,
they must be incorporated into the Christian church
and distinguished from the children of unbelievers. 3
This was done in the old covenant by circumcision, 4
in place of which baptism was instituted
in the new covenant. 5

1. Gen 17:7; Mt 19:14.
2. Ps 22:10; Is 44:1-3; Acts 2:38, 39; 16:31.
3. Acts 10:47; 1 Cor 7:14.
4. Gen 17:9-14.
5. Col 2: 11-13.
5. The Lord's Supper

- See more at: Lord's Day 27 - Heidelberg Catechism

 

[Rick Otto]

God means much to us and we don't truly understand Him. It's not about what it means to us. It's about what it means to God.

I couldn't disagree more.
Peter says it's an act of a good conscience toward God.
I think it's about the relationship.

1Peter 3:21:The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a goodconscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ