Infant Baptism

[Lion King]

First it wa not only infants. It was under the age of twenty. It was about who he did not permit. Those people of rebellion and doubt. those who had seen and did not believe.

And what reason did God give for permitting the children to enter the promised land? Tell me if you know?

 

[Rev Randy]

Why find it hard to believe those who have been circumcised in the heart can turn away from God?



Nope. Pretty sure Paul says they were baptized in Christ.

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.” 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel. 1 Corinthians 10:1-10

Falling away is a possibility for those baptized as infants or adults. To fall away, one must have first been in that place to fall from.

Now I read that scripture you posted. Yes they drank from that Rock. But they were Baptized into Moses not Christ.

 

[Rev Randy]

And what reason did God give for permitting the children to enter the promised land? Tell me if you know?

They were innocent of the sin those who were forbidden were guilty of.

 

[Lion King]

Falling away is a possibility for those baptized as infants or adults. To fall away, one must have first been in that place to fall from.

So, does one remain circumcised in the heart even though they have fallen away from God?

Now I read that scripture you posted. Yes they drank from that Rock. But they were Baptized into Moses not Christ.

Oh, yeah. Baptized into Moses.

 

[Rev Randy]

So, does one remain circumcised in the heart even though they have fallen away from God?



Oh, yeah. Baptized into Moses.

I'd say that circumcised heart simply waxed cold.

 

[Lion King]

They were innocent of the sin those who were forbidden were guilty of.

Why were they declared innocent?

And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad--they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it. Deuteronomy 1:39

 

[Lion King]

I'd say that circumcised heart simply waxed cold.

Is that not the same as being uncircumcised?

 

[shturt678]

So you disagree then? Thats to be expected and it doesnt matter, your faith obeys as does mine, God will help us. Faith, ah faith, i love the Lord, he baptizes me in Joy, praise the Lord!

Contextually and grammatically impossible to separate "born of water" from "the Spirit" at Jn.3:5. In that of the Baptist sacrament, as in that of Jesus afterward, water is joined with the Spirit, the former being the divinely chosen earthly medium, that latter being the regenerating agent who uses the medium. BTW your attitude is needed in the Lutheran setting, come on over. Just ol' old non-grumpy Jack. I almost forgot, I strongly feel infants are born with hereditary sin and in need of the Holy Spirit, ie, how else they going to receive the Holy Spirit other than water baptism? I also strongly believe they are our example of "believing.'

 

[BrotherDC]

Contextually and grammatically impossible to separate "born of water" from "the Spirit" at Jn.3:5. In that of the Baptist sacrament, as in that of Jesus afterward, water is joined with the Spirit, the former being the divinely chosen earthly medium, that latter being the regenerating agent who uses the medium. BTW your attitude is needed in the Lutheran setting, come on over. Just ol' old non-grumpy Jack. I almost forgot, I strongly feel infants are born with hereditary sin and in need of the Holy Spirit, ie, how else they going to receive the Holy Spirit other than water baptism? I also strongly believe they are our example of "believing.'

With God all things are possible, faith can move mountains, im already baptized in spirit and im happy in Christ, but i don't care to debate this because its a distraction, there are more edifying things to discuss. I just wanted to share my faith, i thought maybe it could help someone.

 

[shturt678]

With God all things are possible, faith can move mountains, im already baptized in spirit and im happy in Christ, but i don't care to debate this because its a distraction, there are more edifying things to discuss. I just wanted to share my faith, i thought maybe it could help someone.

We can agree to disagree, and upon passing find out who had the valid one interpretation of the serious "infant baptism" issue, ie, Matt.18:6.

 

[BrotherDC]

We can agree to disagree, and upon passing find out who had the valid one interpretation of the serious "infant baptism" issue, ie, Matt.18:6.

thanks.

Im not sure Mt 18:6 refers to infants though, matter of fact i think hes talking about adults in that scripture.

 

[BrotherDC]

But either way Mt 18:6 doesnt seem to support infant baptism.

 

[shturt678]

But either way Mt 18:6 doesnt seem to support infant baptism.

Matt.18:6, "....these little ones that believe in me,...." I commend your, not only caring, but humble attitude, don't lose it. The ol' unwilling to admit that these precious little ones can believe. "To believe" means to trust. Even in adults the inner essential of their faith, let it be filled with discursive thought, intelligent knowledge, introspective consciousness, is childlike trust.

In the matter of this trust the child is the model for the man, not the man for the child my new friend BrotherDC. Jesus uses the natural traits of a child to illustrate what he desires his disciples to become, ie, and us! As capable as a little child is of natural trust toward mother, father, etc., so capable it it of having spiritual trust in its heart. Not the discursive features, including dialectical skills, make faith what it is but this essential quality of trust my friend. My beginning point: As faith remains in a state of sleep, coma, insanity, senility, dementia so it can also be active in earliest infancy (Lk.1:41, 44).

Now if these precious little ones are able to believe and water baptism saves, then, I can only conclude that these little ones need to be water baptized. My end point, these little ones need the Holy Spirit indwelling, and how else is this going to come to pass other than by "infant baptism"??? Just ol' old, with early stages of senility and dementia coming in, Jack.

 

[BrotherDC]

Matt.18:6, "....these little ones that believe in me,...." I commend your, not only caring, but humble attitude, don't lose it. The ol' unwilling to admit that these precious little ones can believe. "To believe" means to trust. Even in adults the inner essential of their faith, let it be filled with discursive thought, intelligent knowledge, introspective consciousness, is childlike trust.

In the matter of this trust the child is the model for the man, not the man for the child my new friend BrotherDC. Jesus uses the natural traits of a child to illustrate what he desires his disciples to become, ie, and us! As capable as a little child is of natural trust toward mother, father, etc., so capable it it of having spiritual trust in its heart. Not the discursive features, including dialectical skills, make faith what it is but this essential quality of trust my friend. My beginning point: As faith remains in a state of sleep, coma, insanity, senility, dementia so it can also be active in earliest infancy (Lk.1:41, 44).

Now if these precious little ones are able to believe and water baptism saves, then, I can only conclude that these little ones need to be water baptized. My end point, these little ones need the Holy Spirit indwelling, and how else is this going to come to pass other than by "infant baptism"??? Just ol' old, with early stages of senility and dementia coming in, Jack.

Thank you for being so pleasant.

Yes of course a child can follow Christ, but can a baby?

 

[Rev Randy]

Matt.18:6, "....these little ones that believe in me,...." I commend your, not only caring, but humble attitude, don't lose it. The ol' unwilling to admit that these precious little ones can believe. "To believe" means to trust. Even in adults the inner essential of their faith, let it be filled with discursive thought, intelligent knowledge, introspective consciousness, is childlike trust.

In the matter of this trust the child is the model for the man, not the man for the child my new friend BrotherDC. Jesus uses the natural traits of a child to illustrate what he desires his disciples to become, ie, and us! As capable as a little child is of natural trust toward mother, father, etc., so capable it it of having spiritual trust in its heart. Not the discursive features, including dialectical skills, make faith what it is but this essential quality of trust my friend. My beginning point: As faith remains in a state of sleep, coma, insanity, senility, dementia so it can also be active in earliest infancy (Lk.1:41, 44).

Now if these precious little ones are able to believe and water baptism saves, then, I can only conclude that these little ones need to be water baptized. My end point, these little ones need the Holy Spirit indwelling, and how else is this going to come to pass other than by "infant baptism"??? Just ol' old, with early stages of senility and dementia coming in, Jack.

Why is it so hard to believe the Holy Spirit can indwell an infant? The Baptist was indwelled before he was born. (as you noted with Luke 1:41-44). I note it does not say the unborn baptist believed. But the Holy Spirit did and caused the babe to leap in his mother's womb. So did the unborn John believe?

 

[BrotherDC]

Why is it so hard to believe the Holy Spirit can indwell an infant? The Baptist was indwelled before he was born. (as you noted with Luke 1:41-44). I note it does not say the unborn baptist believed. But the Holy Spirit did and caused the babe to leap in his mother's womb. So did the unborn John believe?

Im not sure the comparison works, Jesus could walk on water too but a human baby cant.

 

[Rev Randy]

Im not sure the comparison works, Jesus could walk on water too but a human baby cant.

But Peter could and did.

 

[shturt678]

Why is it so hard to believe the Holy Spirit can indwell an infant? The Baptist was indwelled before he was born. (as you noted with Luke 1:41-44). I note it does not say the unborn baptist believed. But the Holy Spirit did and caused the babe to leap in his mother's womb. So did the unborn John believe?

Rev. Randy

 

[Rev Randy]

Do we not understand that the Baby baptist was given this gift due to the righteousness of his parents? God knew how the child would be raised. He would expect nothing else from true believers.
The same applies today. A true believers will not faint in instructing his/her child into the Way of Christ. Not to mention that the holy Spirit will also guide the child into all truth.

 

[BrotherDC]

But Peter could and did.

Well, ive never seen water yet Christ is within me, if peter can walk on water by faith then by faith i can be saved without water. And i am.