Infant Baptism

holyrokker said:

Circumcision was a sign of the covenant that God made with Abraham.

In a similar way, baptism is a sign of the covenant God makes with us through Christ.

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You could say that...if you didn't take anything in the New Testament in to account.

Albion said:

You could say that...if you didn't take anything in the New Testament in to account.

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Like Christ Himself explaining what Baptism is for. (The remission of sins)

justlovinJesus said:

Hi. My question is just a simple one but with a long backstory.. I was baptized as an infant. I've always held this baptism as a true one based on this: I believe if you are baptized and later on decide to not follow God, your baptism is no longer valid. That being said, I believe in the opposite, if you decide to come to God after being baptized, your baptism is in fact, valid. I've also thought that the babies were dedicated in the Israelites' covenant after 8 days, and entire households were baptized in the New Testament. That being said, the church I belong to now believes my baptism is not valid by noting that in the New Testament, it is 'believe, then be baptized'. This obviously disturbs me because, does my baptism count? Do I need to be re-baptized? I don't know, and I've been following God for a while now and am scared that I've been following all this time but missing a step. I've always thought my baptism was valid until my pastor said it was not. Can somebody shine some light on this?

I go to a church that doesn't have a specific denomnation but clearly leans baptist. I'm posting it here as I do think it's a theology question, although it does fall under 'Christian Advice' as well.

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Hey I know many people consider water baptism to be a requirement for salvation - which it sounds like you do. Simply stating "valid" or "invalid" you consider your infant baptism to just be something you do, rather than something you do when you believe. I think you should reconsider your thought patterns on it.

Legend: R = What saves B = Result of being saved G = What they did not do to be saved

Acts 10:43-47
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

I want to say these people who were baptized with the holy spirit were saved apart from their water baptism. Baptism is something you do because you believe, not just to do. They received it while He was still speaking to them about Jesus, implying that their belief 'gave them the forgiveness of sins' and the holy spirit. Read this next passage to solidify your understanding.

Ephesians 1:13-14
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Please look at the colored wording, they were sealed with the holy spirit who is a 'guarantee of the inheritance' which means salvation.

So having said that don't feel guilt stricken if you think your baptism is invalid. I do believe the Lord Jesus took up all sin at his baptism and carried them to the cross, blotting them out forever. So those who believe in his work are sinless and are pure in his eyes. Those who follow after him.

I do suggest being baptized if you are/do become sinless. As Jesus wants his believers to do it as a result of the remission of sins they received for their belief in Him.

I personally have not been water baptized in my life. Though this doesn't effect my conscience whatsoever. People may bring up that typical Acts 2 verse and say its a requirement, but thats just an implication not a fact. I showed you scripture that shows people doing it instead of stating it. And also there is a verse such as John 3:5. Personally I believe it refers to the ministries of John and Christ, such as Christ said in Acts 1:5 when he departed.

Rev Randy said:

So it grows back?

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So to speak. YES.

As infants are unable to understand the difference between good and evil, sin is not counted against them. However, once they reach an age when they are able to learn good from bad, the LORD expects them to come to Him.

Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.” Isaiah 7:13-17

Albion said:

I think you're confusing something here--the condition of all of us before God and the other attributes that men may have.

When I pointed out that the Bible teaches that we are born in sin, I didn't suggest that this means every newborn is spoiling for trouble. It just means that we are not acceptable to God, in his justice, until redeemed.

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Well, all babies have been redeemed in Christ, even those born to pagans, atheists etc. All infants belong to God and will be in the Kingdom of God [should they die before coming of age].

Alas, there are so many views on this subject that it gets complicated...and then people start talking as though everyone who isn't in their own church thinks alike--and wrongly.

Very few people think that baptism saves. Some more, but a minority, think that it is a requirement for salvation. Most think that it is expected ALONG WITH other things, such as Faith.

Virtually no one thinks that the water itself does something magical.

The main reason infants are baptized is because the New Testament seems to indicate that they were baptized in the early days of the church.

There are scriptural benefits indicated in scripture, so it cannot be an act that is merely a sign of submission or obedience or having accepted the Lord.

Albion said:

You could say that...if you didn't take anything in the New Testament in to account.

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Please explain how I am in error.

Lion King said:

Well, all babies have been redeemed in Christ, even those born to pagans, atheists etc. All infants belong to God and will be in the Kingdom of God [should they die before coming of age].

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As I said, that's a fascinating theory, however unscriptural it may be.

Albion said:

As I said, that's a fascinating theory, however unscriptural it may be.

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Care to prove to me from the Scriptures how those babies who have not been baptized will not enter the Kingdom of God?

Please?

I don't see how a baby being baptized puts it in a state of grace over one that has not been baptized

Lion King said:

So to speak. YES.

As infants are unable to understand the difference between good and evil, sin is not counted against them. However, once they reach an age when they are able to learn good from bad, the LORD expects them to come to Him.

Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.” Isaiah 7:13-17

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That's rather bazaar. God circumcised and it grows back but when man does it, it does not grow back.
If understanding is a prerequisite of salvation, then we are all doomed as we see through that glass dimly.

Off topic - God took adams rib and made eve. But ribs regenerate (was thinking of the regrowing back part, lol)

holyrokker said:

Please explain how I am in error.

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Well, HK, there's quite a lot in the New Testament that teaches us that baptism is more than merely a sign of the new covenant. The NT teaches us that it forgives sin, imparts the Holy Ghost, makes us cleansed, alive, and changed, for instance.

Lion King said:

Well, all babies have been redeemed in Christ, even those born to pagans, atheists etc. All infants belong to God and will be in the Kingdom of God [should they die before coming of age].

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Ahhh, the age of accountability. Scripture please.

Rev Randy said:

That's rather bazaar. God circumcised and it grows back but when man does it, it does not grow back.
If understanding is a prerequisite of salvation, then we are all doomed as we see through that glass dimly.

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Oh, are you one of those folks who believe that once a person comes to Christ (is circumcised in the heart), they can never be lost again?

Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Revelation 2:5


By the way, are you aware that though the Israelites were baptized in Christ during their exodus, God did not spare them for their sins? He destroyed them to set an example for us.

Rev Randy said:

Ahhh, the age of accountability. Scripture please.

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And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad--they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it. Deuteronomy 1:39

Why did God allow the infants to enter the promised land, but denied the same to most adults of Israel? Tell me if you know?

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Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.” Isaiah 7:13-17

Lion King said:

Oh, are you one of those folks who believe that once a person comes to Christ (is circumcised in the heart), they can never be lost again?

Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. Revelation 2:5


By the way, are you aware that though the Israelites were baptized in Christ during their exodus, God did not spare them for their sins? He destroyed them to set an example for us.

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Nope, I am not of the OSAS crowd.
The Israelites were Baptized in Christ? I'm pretty sure Christ had not yet redeemed them. At best this was a picture of things to come. Like Abraham placing his son on the altar.

Albion said:

Well, HK, there's quite a lot in the New Testament that teaches us that baptism is more than merely a sign of the new covenant. The NT teaches us that it forgives sin, imparts the Holy Ghost, makes us cleansed, alive, and changed, for instance.

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I've never claimed that it is "merely a sign." Perhaps you read something into my statement that wasn't actually there.

Lion King said:

And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad--they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it. Deuteronomy 1:39

Why did God allow the infants to enter the promised land, but denied the same to most adults of Israel? Tell me if you know?

_________

Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. He will be eating curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, for before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. The Lord will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah—he will bring the king of Assyria.” Isaiah 7:13-17

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First it wa not only infants. It was under the age of twenty. It was about who he did not permit. Those people of rebellion and doubt. those who had seen and did not believe.

Rev Randy said:

Nope, I am not of the OSAS crowd.

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Why find it hard to believe those who have been circumcised in the heart can turn away from God?

The Israelites were Baptized in Christ? I'm pretty sure Christ had not yet redeemed them. At best this was a picture of things to come. Like Abraham placing his son on the altar.

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Nope. Pretty sure Paul says they were baptized in Christ.

For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.” 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel. 1 Corinthians 10:1-10