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nephilimiyr said:Wow, I just noticed something in what I said and it is good!
Talking about this lack of evidence in faith that babies don't show is the same with us when it comes to works and deeds and our own faith. James says without works faith is dead. The odvious implication of that concerning this topic I'm going to by pass, it's just too odvious. But the way I believe in what James was saying is that we can claim all we want that we believe in Jesus Christ and even "saved" but there has to be somekind of evidence that shows this to be true. James says this evidence is good works and good deeds, they are the outward expressions that a change in one's heart has come about. Without these evidence's you are going to instead show the evidence's of sin, the flesh, the opposite of love. If you are showing signs of anything that is the opposite of love then your claims of being one of God's children is null and void.
That was good! I really don't know what I think about it concerning faith in an infant.Melethiel said:What do you make of these verses
then?
Yet you are he who took me from the womb;
you made me trust you at my mother's breasts.
10On you was I cast from my birth,
and from my mother's womb you have been my God.
What do you make of these verses
then?
Yet you are he who took me from the womb;
you made me trust you at my mother's breasts.
10On you was I cast from my birth,
and from my mother's womb you have been my God.
LOL, you're teaseing me!Oblio said:The child is a Christian, and is under the Sacrament
Judaism and Jews were a foreshadowing of Christianity and Christians.
The child was a Jew and is under covenant, sorry.
The Jews yes, on this side of the cross. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.Oblio said:I hope you mean how one obtained it. This side of the Cross, there is no salvation outside Jesus Christ, not even for Jews.
nephilimiyr said:The Jews yes, on this side of the cross. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
On the other side of the cross Jews were capable of gaining salvation but it wasn't through the cross, it was through the divine ordinances and following the law. Once Jesus died and rose again God put an end to the divine ordinance's. So now if a Jew rejects Christ, no ordinance is going to save him.
Does that clear it up?
On the other side of the cross Jews were capable of gaining salvation but it wasn't through the cross, it was through the divine ordinances and following the law.
Melethiel said:So am I just misunderstanding you, or are you saying that only Jewish infants could have faith?
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Yah, I didn't make myself too understandable in that first post did I?Oblio said:
That's correct, Jesus said in that one parable that they were in Abraham's bossom. And I believe, not sure when exactly it took place, that these Jews awaiting their salvation in "Hades" made their way to heaven sometime during the death of Jesus and His resurrection. Most likely at the very instant Jesus's Spirit entered back into His body.Oblio said:Though we would add, that salvation for them did not occur until Great and Holy Saturday and the Resurrection on Great and Holy Pascha. Prior to that, the righteous (and some were Gentiles) were awaiting their Saviour in Hades.
I'm just curious: if someone posts a reply that refutes what you're saying, are you allowed to just claim that nothing was posted?nephilimiyr said:I had mentioned this same thing a long time ago and still no one has commented on it. I do think it is legit to bring up and it does deserve an answer. What about all the infants who die being an infant who has not recieved baptism? Why should infants who have no means to decide whether they are going to believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour spend eternity in hell because someone didn't baptise them?
Borealis said:I'm just curious: if someone posts a reply that refutes what you're saying, are you allowed to just claim that nothing was posted?
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=23358837#post23358837
nephilimiyr said:The Jews yes, on this side of the cross. I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
On the other side of the cross Jews were capable of gaining salvation but it wasn't through the cross, it was through the divine ordinances and following the law. Once Jesus died and rose again God put an end to the divine ordinance's. So now if a Jew rejects Christ, no ordinance is going to save him.
Does that clear it up?
"wrong"? You know Kepler, it's this attitude of your's that turns alot of people away from you.KEPLER said:Wrong. Even the Jews in the OT obtained Salvation through the Cross. All the OT sacrifices pointed forward to a coming Redeemer.
All people, for all time, in all of history, receive Salvation in one way and one way alone: The Cross.
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