katherine2001
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Borealis said:
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Borealis said:Yes, we are very aware that you feel the need to repeat, ad nauseum, that water doesn't save. I know this will come as a total shock to you, but we don't believe that water saves, either.
God saves. He chooses to work through the water of baptism. And his gift is freely given to EVERYONE. Jesus says, 'let the children come to me.' You deny that by rejecting their right to receive the freely given gift of baptism.
katherine2001 said:! God loves children and baptism makes them God's children. If anyone needs God's protection, it is innocent little children, especially infants. Children understand a lot more than we give them credit for, and that includes infants. Sometimes, the faith that children have in God sets an example for us adults--it has almost moved me to tears sometimes. In the Orthodox Church, infants receive Communion from the time they are baptized (before they get teeth, they are just given the wine). This way, they are raised in the nurture of Christ and His Body. Infants need to be God's more than any of us, because they are helpless. Remember that the Scriptures say that entire households were baptized, and household means all people living in the home. In the census, when you are asked how many people are in the household, you include the infants and toddlers, don't you?
katherine2001 said:Please show us even one example of a baptism done in the New Testament that was not done in water.
I had mentioned this same thing a long time ago and still no one has commented on it. I do think it is legit to bring up and it does deserve an answer. What about all the infants who die being an infant who has not recieved baptism? Why should infants who have no means to decide whether they are going to believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour spend eternity in hell because someone didn't baptise them?Lynn73 said:So God refuses to have anything to do with little babies unless you put water on them and wine in their mouth? He can't show them grace otherwise?He can't protect them unless physical water has been applied? Oh boy. Baptism doesn't make anyone God's child. Faith in Christ does.
That is right, he should not, Parents should obey this, if they get baptized, then why not their infants.. what is the difference between Abraham circumcising all the children at 8 days old through Moses through Christ times? They were ordered to do so.. and this was not just so to have them know who was a Jew, because there were many others as Lot, Essau, Ishmael, and many more who received this mark and went their own way... even the most Samaritans were circumcised, they were 1/2 Jewish, they were once part of the promised people..Lynn73 said:The Lord should not have to spell out for you that infants don't need baptizing.
How do we know what an infant thinks, if I as a Parent received baptism why not then why my own child?Over and over we see in His word that people believe first, then comes baptism. Phillip told the eunich that he could be baptized if he believed with all his heart. Why can't you get that babies cannot hear, understand, and accept the gospel therefore there is no need to baptize them? Water cannot save, anyway, imho
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Well if you want to assume that they do have the capability to have faith in Jesus Christ then you can go ahead and do so. I would be interested in your thoughts on that though.Melethiel said:Why the assumption that infants can't have faith? That seems to be what you whole argument rests on.
GraceInHim said:Hello Jsisrl,
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Hey, it's my friend Jesus Is real!Jesus Is Real said:nephilimiyr,
Yo!
nephilimiyr said:Well if you want to assume that they do have the capability to have faith in Jesus Christ then you can go ahead and do so.
Perhaps I can answer your question directly. I am the father of 4 boys so I do know what babies are like. I can't see them haveing faith in Jesus Christ because they do show faith in anything else. When they get hungry they don't show faith that they are going to be feed, they just respond to their hunger and demand to to be feed. Likewise with a number of other things.
Infants have to go through a period of learning before they can do anything on their own much less wonder about who created the universe. Infants spend their time learning about the universe around them and it's not until much later when they can even have thoughts about who created it all.
Trust me, LOL, infants don't have faith in anything. They only know how to respond when their body needs or wants something. Their minds develop fast however, some faster than others.
yah know, I know a guy who told me he was 4 when he gave his life to Jesus Christ and was baptised. He's a minister today in his 30s.
What do you make of these verses then?nephilimiyr said:Well if you want to assume that they do have the capability to have faith in Jesus Christ then you can go ahead and do so. I would be interested in your thoughts on that though.
Perhaps I can answer your question directly. I am the father of 4 boys so I do know what babies are like. I can't see them haveing faith in Jesus Christ because they don't show they have faith in anything. When they get hungry they don't show faith that they are going to be feed, they just respond to their hunger and demand to to be feed. Likewise with a number of other things.
Infants have to go through a period of learning before they can do anything on their own much less wonder about who created the universe. Infants spend their time learning about the universe around them and it's not until much later when they can even have thoughts about who created it all.
Trust me, LOL, infants don't have faith in anything. They only know how to respond when their body needs or wants something. Their minds develop fast however, some faster than others.
yah know, I know a guy who told me he was 4 when he gave his life to Jesus Christ and was baptised. He's a minister today in his 30s.
Yet you are he who took me from the womb;
you made me trust you at my mother's breasts.
10On you was I cast from my birth,
and from my mother's womb you have been my God.
Some differences in doctrine are rather petty but this one I consider VERY important. In one, baptism saves so we are relying on a WORK of our own doing to partially save us. God tells us that our works do NOT save us.
Melethiel said:Why the assumption that infants can't have faith? That seems to be what you whole argument rests on.
The one Biblical incident that lead me to doubt was the thief on the cross. I KNOW he was not baptized before he died and yet Jesus said "Today thou shalt be with me in Paradise".
Wow, I just noticed something in what I said and it is good!nephilimiyr said:Well if you want to assume that they do have the capability to have faith in Jesus Christ then you can go ahead and do so. I would be interested in your thoughts on that though.
Perhaps I can answer your question directly. I am the father of 4 boys so I do know what babies are like. I can't see them haveing faith in Jesus Christ because they don't show they have faith in anything. When they get hungry they don't show faith that they are going to be feed, they just respond to their hunger and demand to to be feed. Likewise with a number of other things.
Infants have to go through a period of learning before they can do anything on their own much less wonder about who created the universe. Infants spend their time learning about the universe around them and it's not until much later when they can even have thoughts about who created it all.
Trust me, LOL, infants don't have faith in anything. They only know how to respond when their body needs or wants something. Their minds develop fast however, some faster than others.
yah know, I know a guy who told me he was 4 when he gave his life to Jesus Christ and was baptised. He's a minister today in his 30s.
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