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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Infallible
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Paul S
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It means the Catholic Church will never teach error regarding faith and morals, because if she did so, Jesus' promise that the gates of hell would never prevail over His Church would have been a lie.
Members of the Church can make mistakes - we all sin, and even popes have done so, sometimes horribly. But they never changed the faith as passed down from Jesus to the Apostles and their successors.
Matters of discipline can also change. It could be that the strict fasting rules were a mistake, or it could be that today's greatly relaxed rules are, or that both are appropriate for their time. Same with the Mass, the wearing of veils, and many of the other things we love to complain about.
We must obey (although we can voluntarily follow a stricter practice unless the Church prohibits it), and we can work to change it, through the proper channels, and always with proper respect for the Church and her hierarchy.
Members of the Church can make mistakes - we all sin, and even popes have done so, sometimes horribly. But they never changed the faith as passed down from Jesus to the Apostles and their successors.
Matters of discipline can also change. It could be that the strict fasting rules were a mistake, or it could be that today's greatly relaxed rules are, or that both are appropriate for their time. Same with the Mass, the wearing of veils, and many of the other things we love to complain about.
We must obey (although we can voluntarily follow a stricter practice unless the Church prohibits it), and we can work to change it, through the proper channels, and always with proper respect for the Church and her hierarchy.
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Alright thanks, but one follow-up question for you. What is considered a teaching of faith or morals? Those are both such broad terms.Paul S said:It means the Catholic Church will never teach error regarding faith and morals, because if she did so, Jesus' promise that the gates of hell would never prevail over His Church would have been a lie.
Members of the Church can make mistakes - we all sin, and even popes have done so, sometimes horribly. But they never changed the faith as passed down from Jesus to the Apostles and their successors.
Matters of discipline can also change. It could be that the strict fasting rules were a mistake, or it could be that today's greatly relaxed rules are, or that both are appropriate for their time. Same with the Mass, the wearing of veils, and many of the other things we love to complain about.
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Paul S
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Read the Catechism. Whatever the Church teaches in there, follow.
Seriously, they are broad terms, and can be difficult to distinguish from discipline at times, but I think discipline relates more to the way things are done rather than the actual belief behind them.
The Mass as Sacrifice is a matter of faith and cannot change. The expression of that Sacrifice can change. Confessing our sins is required, but whether we do so in private or in public is a discipline. In the early Church, confession and penance were done publicly. We must fast, but the Church, through her power of binding and loosing, can tell us when.
Likewise, moral teachings cannot change. Abortion is always wrong. There are conditions for the just use of the death penalty. Since, though, judging the conditions involves human judgement, we could be wrong in some particular instance, but the teaching is still true.
Another thing that is infallible is canonisation of saints.
Seriously, they are broad terms, and can be difficult to distinguish from discipline at times, but I think discipline relates more to the way things are done rather than the actual belief behind them.
The Mass as Sacrifice is a matter of faith and cannot change. The expression of that Sacrifice can change. Confessing our sins is required, but whether we do so in private or in public is a discipline. In the early Church, confession and penance were done publicly. We must fast, but the Church, through her power of binding and loosing, can tell us when.
Likewise, moral teachings cannot change. Abortion is always wrong. There are conditions for the just use of the death penalty. Since, though, judging the conditions involves human judgement, we could be wrong in some particular instance, but the teaching is still true.
Another thing that is infallible is canonisation of saints.
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Is there anything outside the Catechism that is infalliable?Paul S said:Read the Catechism. Whatever the Church teaches in there, follow.
Seriously, they are broad terms, and can be difficult to distinguish from discipline at times, but I think discipline relates more to the way things are done rather than the actual belief behind them.
The Mass as Sacrifice is a matter of faith and cannot change. The expression of that Sacrifice can change. Confessing our sins is required, but whether we do so in private or in public is a discipline. In the early Church, confession and penance were done publicly. We must fast, but the Church, through her power of binding and loosing, can tell us when.
Likewise, moral teachings cannot change. Abortion is always wrong. There are conditions for the just use of the death penalty. Since, though, judging the conditions involves human judgement, we could be wrong in some particular instance, but the teaching is still true.
Another thing that is infallible is canonisation of saints.
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Paul S
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The Bible, of course, is inerrant in faith and morals. Other documents of the Church can be infallible, such as encyclicals or Council documents. The Catechism nicely sums up all the teachings of the Church, so it's a great resource, and is infallible when it proclaims those teachings.
The safest thing to do is learn the Church teaching, why the Church teaches what it does, and obey. It used to be said that the job of Catholics was to "pay, pray, and obey". Even though we have a lot more participation by the laity, and it is our job to live out the Gospel in the world and evangelise others, I still think that pretty much sums it up.
The safest thing to do is learn the Church teaching, why the Church teaches what it does, and obey. It used to be said that the job of Catholics was to "pay, pray, and obey". Even though we have a lot more participation by the laity, and it is our job to live out the Gospel in the world and evangelise others, I still think that pretty much sums it up.
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