Infallibility - When Is He Infallable?

[DivineFiliation]

I read in another post that the pope is only infallable when he speaks from the seat of Peter. I read through my catechism last night and could find 100% clarification of what, in fact, the pope actually speaks from this seat. Is he always speaking from this seat (because, duh, he is the pope) or is it only when he write documents that are supposed to be written by the Holy Spirit?

 

[canadiancatholic]

I read in another post that the pope is only infallable when he speaks from the seat of Peter. I read through my catechism last night and could find 100% clarification of what, in fact, the pope actually speaks from this seat. Is he always speaking from this seat (because, duh, he is the pope) or is it only when he write documents that are supposed to be written by the Holy Spirit?

No, he isn't always speaking from the chair. In the instances he is, he will make sure it is known. In the last few hundred years there have only been 2 decrees made infallable, one is the perpetual virginity of Mary, and the other is her assumption into heaven. So you can see the power to proclaim infallability isn't used lightly. I always thought that a good sign that the spirit is guiding the church is that through the dark ages, the popes with morals of a lesser extent never used the infallability to their own gains.Just my thoughts.
canadiancatholic.

 

[DivineFiliation]

so, what about everything written in the catechism? Are they made from infallible statements or teachings or what? ...

 

[anawim]

I haven't finished reading the document, but Pastor Aeternus from Vatican I (#4) and Lumen Gentium from Vatican II both seem to contain criteria for infallibility which lines up with what I was taught:

The Criteria

The five criteria for a teaching to fall under papal infallibility were first taught explicitly by the First Vatican Council in the document Pastor Aeternus, chap. 4. These can be enumerated as follows.

1. “the Roman Pontiff”
2. “speaks ex cathedra” (“that is, when in the discharge of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, and by virtue of his supreme apostolic authority….&#8221
3. “he defines”
4. “that a doctrine concerning faith or morals”
5. “must be held by the whole Church”

The Second Vatican Council also affirmed this same set of criteria, using somewhat different language, in the document Lumen Gentium, n. 25. These can be enumerated as follows.

1. “the Roman Pontiff”
2. “in virtue of his office, when as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith (cf. Lk 22:32),”
3. “by a definitive act, he proclaims”
4. “a doctrine of faith or morals” (“And this infallibility…in defining doctrine of faith and morals, extends as far as the deposit of revelation extends&#8221
5. “in accordance with revelation itself, which all are obliged to abide by and be in conformity with”

These two sets of criteria are really one and the same. The wording differs slightly, but the teaching is identical.

It seems to me that ex cathedra does not mean that it contains those words.

 

[QuantaCura]

From Vatican I:

9. Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.

An example from Pius IX:

Wherefore, in humility and fasting, we unceasingly offered our private prayers as well as the public prayers of the Church to God the Father through his Son, that he would deign to direct and strengthen our mind by the power of the Holy Spirit. In like manner did we implore the help of the entire heavenly host as we ardently invoked the Paraclete. Accordingly, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, for the honor of the Holy and undivided Trinity, for the glory and adornment of the Virgin Mother of God, for the exaltation of the Catholic Faith, and for the furtherance of the Catholic religion, by the authority of Jesus Christ our Lord, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own: "We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful."[29]

Hence, if anyone shall dare -- which God forbid! -- to think otherwise than as has been defined by us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment; that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith; that he has separated from the unity of the Church; and that, furthermore, by his own action he incurs the penalties established by law if he should are to express in words or writing or by any other outward means the errors he think in his heart.

so, what about everything written in the catechism? Are they made from infallible statements or teachings or what? ...

They are made from the Megesterium in all its forms. The pope, ecumenical councils, and the ordinary mageristerium. Constant teachings of the ordinary magesterium in union with the pope are infallible, so are dogmatic definitions from popes and councils.

Even teachings that are not explicitly considered "infallible" are still owed our religious submission.

I hope that helps.

 

[DivineFiliation]

yes it helps. thanks.