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Infallibility: What's the deal?

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Soul_Golem

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mrconstance said:
Well, that's only true if you consider Orthodox to be Catholic too. Both Orthodox and Catholics believe that the decisions of an ecumenical council--a meeting of all the orthodox bishops of the world--can produce infallible statements of doctrine.

No, I don't follow anyone's claim of infallibility. I am not a denominational believer myself, and that is because denominations all think they have some kind of kit for Christianity. I go to the Lutheran church I was raised in, but infallibility is not something they will accept. Neither will I. Infallibility is an invention of the papacy.
 
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freespiritchurch

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Soul_Golem said:
No, I don't follow anyone's claim of infallibility. I am not a denominational believer myself, and that is because denominations all think they have some kind of kit for Christianity. I go to the Lutheran church I was raised in, but infallibility is not something they will accept. Neither will I. Infallibility is an invention of the papacy.

Infallibility is not an invention of the papcy: it was developed in the 4th century, and there are many Christians who believe in infallibility, but not papal infallibility.
 
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PaulAckermann

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Soul_Golem said:
The definition of infallibility is: do it because I said so. Successful Christians need no such authority, because their authority comes from God. There is also a different from the Word and infallibility. The Word, as stated in the Bible, is equal to God. The notion that a man can be infallible is no different than making that claim of equality to the Word. Not everything the men who put together the Bible was straight out of the mouth of God. Yet, the Bible makes the distinction between what it teaches and what the Word says. That is what the entire religious conflict stems from. Just read your Bible, it is full of doubt that comes from righteous men called to serve God. Moses himself doubted what God would want to do with him, but after doing what he was told by God he did not pursue infallibility.
Throughout the Bible, we have men who said "Thus saith the Lord" - Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Paul, etc. In essense they were say "Do as I told to do", because they we speaking the word of God, that it, God was speaking through them. They had the gift of prophecy, which is more than foretelling, it was forthtelling. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God's revelation through humans would cease after the first century. The pope is the continuation of God revealing us His will to us.

If God has not continued to reveal His will to us, the following items has not been revealed to us because the Bible is silent on these issues?

1. Bible never says anything against polygamy. In fact, Moses, David, and Solomon had more than one wife. The closest thing is Paul say an elder must have only one wife. but there is no command in the entire Bible against poygamy. Protesatants are hold on to something that was decreed by the Catholic Church and is not in the Bible.

2. The Bible itself does not provide a list of what should be in the Bible. After several councils it was decreed by the pope 405 AD. They Holy Spirit guided those Councils and the Pope to five us the Bible as we have it now. For instance, these Councils went through over 20 gospels and determined that only four (Matthew Mark, Luke and John) were from God. They rejected others such as the Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, etc. This is why the Bible today does not have these latter so-called gospels in it. As a Catholic, I have complete trust in the process of canonization that went on in the fourth century. I believe that the Holy Spirit guided the whole process. But I do not see how Protestants can. If Protestantism was consistent, Protestants should reject the canonization of scripture and start from scratch. Christian bookstores would not sell Bibles, but instead, Matthew, Mark, Romans, Galations, Revelation, etc. as individual books, along with the Gospel of Peter, Gospel of May Magdalene. It would be left up to each individual Christian what is part of canon and what is not. The what be no church telling us what we should accept as being in the Bible.

3. If we were to going only on what the Bible says, we would be worshipping God on Saturday. There is no explicit command in the Bible to worship God on Sunday.

4. There is no explicit command against human cloning in the Bible. So if we limit ourselves to what the Bible says, we cannot say human cloning is wrong.
 
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stdaggett

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I think there are rules for writing here. One is not misrepresenting your own view. I think willfully misrepresenting another's view is just as reprehensible. If those above are ignorantly misreprestenting Catholicism and Infallibility then I can forgive ignorance. I have a feeling though that some of you are willfully ignorant and that is not acceptable for a Christian.Read early church history. Read St. Clement of Rome, read Ignatius, read Iranaeus and read Newman's book on the "Idea of Development of Christian Doctrine." When some of you say the things you do about Catholicism all you do is look silly. For the sake of you being taken seriously by everybody, do a little homework in an honest way. A truly fine Christian debater will be one that can not be impeached for misreprestenting another view. That person can be both highly respected and disagreed with- a rare combination. Let us then, in the interest of Christian charity, love our neighbor's in this forum.To answer the question about infallibilty:This is a negative gift from God. That is, it is a preservative from doctrinal error. The Pope can wake up one day and say "the Italian soccer team is the best the world has ever seen!" but that cannot possibly be infallible. It pertains not to faith and morals. It is also a personal belief and is not universal in scope. That is, the Church has not proposed that belief to the whole of the church, the faithful. So we see at least two conditions: 1) The proposed belief must be concerning faith and/or morals; 2) It must be universal in scope, that is, it must be a doctrine that is required for all Christians to positively affirm.Note: one may not positively affirm a dogma and yet not be culpable because they do not positively deny the proposed doctrine. But this is usually the case because the doctrine is not known by the believer and once it is made known and understood the believer must then affirm the belief in order to remain orthodox.Thank you.St. Daggett
 
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