Inequality

[joeb32]

I found the following quote in Owen Wister's book titled The Virginian. I think it is one of the best descriptions I have found of the American idea, the American dream. What do you think?

I also think that the political left in this country have forgotten what the American idea has always been. They now want to enforce their own idea of equality, which is exactly antihetical to the American idea. The very idea we, as a nation, were founded upon.

It was through the Declaration of Independence that we Americans acknowledged the ETERNAL INEQUALITY of man. For by it we abolished a cut-and-dried aristocracy. We had seen little men artificially held up in high places, and great men artificially held down in low places, and our own justice-loving hearts abhorred this violence to human nature. Therefore, we decreed that every man should thenceforth have equal liberty to find his own level. By this very decree we acknowledged and gave freedom to true aristocracy, saying, "Let the best man win, whoever he is." Let the best man win! That is America's word. That is true democracy. And true democracy and true aristocracy are one and the same thing. If anybody cannot see this, so much the worse for his eyesight.

All emphasis was provided by the author of the quote. Not by me.

 

[Cute Tink]

In what way do you specifically think that the American Left is advocating ideas antithetical to the idea of "equal liberty to find his own level"?

 

[joeb32]

In what way do you specifically think that the American Left is advocating ideas antithetical to the idea of "equal liberty to find his own level"?

It seems to me that much of what I hear from the political left is, we must have economic equality. It's basically wrong that one person can earn millions while others live in poverty. To achieve that "equality" those who achieve must support those who do not. IOWs, it is enforced equality rather than each man reaching his own level. This is basically all that income redistribution is. It is the enforced economic punishment of those who succeed and the artificial propping up of those who do not.

Almost everything I hear from Obama is opposed to the "eternal inequality" of man.

 

[BoltNut]

In what way do you specifically think that the American Left is advocating ideas antithetical to the idea of "equal liberty to find his own level"?

I believe that each of us could find instances of this on both sides of the aisle. However, the Left is a huge advocate of legalizing the undocumented immigrant. Through no effort of their own, the Illegal Immigrant is currently being handed the privilege of citizenship by the those on the Left. This is a process, and has yet to come to full realization in every respect, but is happening, none the less. Legalization of millions of people who for the most part are unskilled and uneducated, will have a dramatic effect on employment. Positions that have traditionally been "stepping stone" jobs filled by younger American citizens that allow one to get experience needed to move "up the ladder" in life. This sudden influx of new "citizens" will result in lowering the overall wages for these positions by inhibiting the natural growth in these fields through artificially increasing the demand for those jobs. The idea of "equal liberty to find one's own level" is being distorted by these kinds of things. The "liberty" is no longer "equal", so to speak. The influx of Illegal Immigrants effects the citizens ability to compete for the positions needed in order to aspire to make a better life. It doesn't completely stifle their ability, but it has a big effect on "finding their own level".

While this is not something exclusively "liberal" in nature, it is currently being illegally 'enacted' by Progressive politicians. These policies serve to hurt the ability of American citizens in their efforts to better themselves and in turn, better our nation.

My own opinion, and I'm sure you may disagree with me. I'm only pointing out that the "American Dream" is indeed being eroded by actions taken by those on the political "left".

 

[BoltNut]

It seems to me that much of what I hear from the political left is, we must have economic equality. It's basically wrong that one person can earn millions while others live in poverty. To achieve that "equality" those who achieve must support those who do not. IOWs, it is enforced equality rather than each man reaching his own level. This is basically all that income redistribution is. It is the enforced economic punishment of those who succeed and the artificial propping up of those who do not.

Almost everything I hear from Obama is opposed to the "eternal inequality" of man.

This is all very true. However, you know that the left will categorically deny "wealth redistribution" is taking place. One person's "wealth redistribution" is another person's "leveling the playing field".

 

[Crusader05]

I'd much rather have freedom than this supposed 'equality' the left is pushing. The equality the founders sought to establish was equality before the law, not equality of condition or equality of outcome, that's socialism!

 

[DaisyDay]

Do you think the children of a poor man have an equal chance of success as the children of a rich man?

 

[stamperben]

Do you think the children of a poor man have an equal chance of success as the children of a rich man?

Seeing as how the children of the rich are already successful - No.

 

[Crusader05]

Do you think the children of a poor man have an equal chance of success as the children of a rich man?

It's not the job of government to play the role of 'equalizer' of economic injustice.

 

[Viren]

It's hard to find the best men when everything is monopolized and the government is corrupted.

 

[Arcangl86]

It's not the job of government to play the role of 'equalizer' of economic injustice.

That's odd. I could have sworn there was something in the Constitution about establishing justice.

 

[joeb32]

Do you think the children of a poor man have an equal chance of success as the children of a rich man?

I believe every person has the ability to reach what they have the ability, desire, and self-discipline to attain. It doesn't matter where they start. What matters is inside each individual. It may be more difficult for a poor man to reach the place a rich man can reach because of the advantage wealth gives the rich man, but nothing is impossible for the man that really works and sacrifices to reach his goals.

Life is not fair. One man is born with great innate intelligence. Another is not. So it goes with each and every person and their personal attributes. Being born wealthy or poor is just another way each person born different. But, nothing can stop the truly determined man. The history of our country is filled with examples of this. One of our greatest presidents was born into abject poverty and raised by a father who didn't believe in education. However, he educated himself. He taught himself everything he became, and he became a truly heroic man.

This is the genius and stamp of the infinite on our form of government. To throw this away in the pursuit of "fairness" is to throw away the greatest gift man has ever been given: liberty. And I'm afraid that so many people take liberty as such a "given" that they do not realize how easy it is to lose it.

 

[joeb32]

That's odd. I could have sworn there was something in the Constitution about establishing justice.

The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution speak of the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness. Nowhere do either of them say everyone and everything in life would ever be equal in all respects.

 

[Staccato]

I believe every person has the ability to reach what they have the ability, desire, and self-discipline to attain. It doesn't matter where they start. What matters is inside each individual. It may be more difficult for a poor man to reach the place a rich man can reach because of the advantage wealth gives the rich man, but nothing is impossible for the man that really works and sacrifices to reach his goals.

Life is not fair. One man is born with great innate intelligence. Another is not. So it goes with each and every person and their personal attributes. Being born wealthy or poor is just another way each person born different. But, nothing can stop the truly determined man. The history of our country is filled with examples of this. One of our greatest presidents was born into abject poverty and raised by a father who didn't believe in education. However, he educated himself. He taught himself everything he became, and he became a truly heroic man.

This is the genius and stamp of the infinite on our form of government. To throw this away in the pursuit of "fairness" is to throw away the greatest gift man has ever been given: liberty. And I'm afraid that so many people take liberty as such a "given" that they do not realize how easy it is to lose it.

Just-world hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Realistically we're never going to be at equality of outcomes, nor do I think we should be. What we should strive for is equality of opportunity, true meritocracy. If that ever happens, your post will be valid, but it don't think we're anywhere near right now. Some things truly are impossible even for the most driven man, purely by the bad fortune of his birth.

 

[Arcangl86]

The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution speak of the right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness. Nowhere do either of them say everyone and everything in life would ever be equal in all respects.

That's correct, but then again neither did I. Things can still be unequal and be just. Should somebody working the line and somebody who spent years in college to get an advanced degree be paid the same? No, while that will be equal, that won't be just. But should they both be able to afford the basic needs of life without needing to rely on outside intervention, from with either the government or a charity? Yes, and that would be just, though not equal.

 

[sandybay]

It seems to me that much of what I hear from the political left is, we must have economic equality. It's basically wrong that one person can earn millions while others live in poverty. To achieve that "equality" those who achieve must support those who do not. IOWs, it is enforced equality rather than each man reaching his own level. This is basically all that income redistribution is. It is the enforced economic punishment of those who succeed and the artificial propping up of those who do not.

Almost everything I hear from Obama is opposed to the "eternal inequality" of man.

The third world is built on this principle, one man lives in a mansion and the other man is going through the mansion garbage bins, is that how you want America to be?
Are you so delusional as to think that you may one day be that man living in the mansion?

 

[pakicetus]

So many people in this thread are missing the fact that almost nobody in America wants complete equality. The American left (if you're willing to call it that) just wants greater equality. Which isn't asking for much, since America has the most income inequality in the first world, and has been much more equal before (in the 1940s to 1970s).

How would those of you who are Republicans feel if Democrats routinely accused you of wanting 100% of the country's wealth to go to one person? That's just about as inaccurate as what some of you are saying about "the left." It makes you look like clueless wingnuts.

 

[Viren]

I don't think anyone is in favor of perfect equality. It's just that 1% of the population owning 50% of everything is a bit excessive.

 

[smaneck]

It seems to me that much of what I hear from the political left is, we must have economic equality. It's basically wrong that one person can earn millions while others live in poverty.

I think the bigger problem is that others have millions who didn't necessarily earn it while those who work hard live in poverty. That's an unnatural inequality.

 

[smaneck]

Through no effort of their own, the Illegal Immigrant is currently being handed the privilege of citizenship by the those on the Left.

Uh, no they are not being handed citizenship. The ones who have lived here for decades, worked hard and had children educated are simply not being deported.

Legalization of millions of people who for the most part are unskilled and uneducated, will have a dramatic effect on employment.

If you think migrant workers who harvest the food you eat are unskilled, I challenge you to try picking strawberries for a season. I doubt if you last.

Positions that have traditionally been "stepping stone" jobs filled by younger American citizens that allow one to get experience needed to move "up the ladder" in life.

Young Americans get jobs at places like McDonalds. Someone without adequate English-speaking skills will not get a job there. If our young American gets a job plucking feathers at Tyson Foods, chances are they will washout.

This sudden influx of new "citizens" will result in lowering the overall wages for these positions by inhibiting the natural growth in these fields through artificially increasing the demand for those jobs.

Psst. They are not citizens. But the issue of immigrants bringing down the price of labor has been a complaint since the nineteenth century. This is nothing new. The only thing that's new is the skin color of the immigrants.