Indoctrination

[ACougar]

I've always told my Air Force buddies that the Air Force is a great alternative to miitary service. I know it's not really true, but it's just close enough to true that sometimes you'll see a little steam.

I got more training on how to be a killer through Halo then I did Air Force Boot Camp. You're severely misinformed if you honestly believe that.

 

[Gishin]

We are all part of that killing network, let's go a bit more at the airforce. Is the only killer the guy up in the plane who flipps a switch and drops a bomb on an enemy position? What about the guy who loaded the bomb onto the plane, the guy who maintains the plane inbetween flights, the guy who serves them all lunch, the tax payer who pays thier salaries, votes in thier leadership and uses the resources (oil) over which we are fighting? We are all a part of the killing spear, so to speak, the only differance is that guy who flips the actual switch and drops the actual bomb is the actual sharp end of the spear.

Is the haft of the spear not as much a part of the killing as the tip of the spear?

This is exactly true. I'm an intel analyst. I've never pulled a trigger and shot anyone, yet I'm being called a killer. If I'm a killer, then every voter and tax payer in the U.S. is a killer.

 

[ACougar]

I've had a lot of jobs in the military, but none are as directly linked to the taking of life as paying my taxes, voting for people who lead the military into conflict or pumping gas into my truck.

When you go to the supermarket and buy a roast... you may not think your responsible for killing the animal your eating, however the truth is... it would not have happened had you not demanded it with your purchases.

This is exactly true. I'm an intel analyst. I've never pulled a trigger and shot anyone, yet I'm being called a killer. If I'm a killer, then every voter and tax payer in the U.S. is a killer.

 

[Fin12]

No.

You do realise the primary objective in warfare is not to kill, it is to win.

Secondly, in a fire-fight killing ins't always the preffered option.

A wounded man in your possesion can be interogated, a wounded man in their possession, costs food, medical supplies, slows them down.

Be a pacifist if you must, but I find it disturbing considering the danger some of those men and women are in, to find people spitting in their faces.

You don't need to fight, you don't need to kill, but recognise at least the courage/medical expertise/leadership etc that their job often requires.

Now I am a peace loving hippy just as much as the next guy, but I recognise that warfare and killing are pretty much a necessity when it comes to living beings.

 

[Gishin]

For the record, American military is taught to shoot to kill anytime you need to fire your weapon. We have loads of non lethal force procedures though that don't involve our rifle.

 

[quatona]

You do realise the primary objective in warfare is not to kill, it is to win.

Sure, just like the primary objective in robbery is not to kill, but to make money and provide your family with a good life.

Secondly, in a fire-fight killing ins't always the preffered option.

...but frequently it is, and if it´s not the preferred option it´s still an accepted option.

Be a pacifist if you must, but I find it disturbing considering the danger some of those men and women are in, to find people spitting in their faces.

At least us pacifists don´t harm them physically, and even the
"spitting in their faces" is actually just verbal criticism of the job they are doing.

You don't need to fight, you don't need to kill, but recognise at least the courage/medical expertise/leadership etc that their job often requires.

Ok, I recognize the courage of suicide bombers, I recognize the leadership Hitler had. I still criticize that these guys perform or order organized killings.

Now I am a peace loving hippy just as much as the next guy, but I recognise that warfare and killing are pretty much a necessity when it comes to living beings.

Now, this idea is not uncommon, but it certainly excludes you from being a peace loving hippie.

 

[CCGirl]

You do realise the primary objective in warfare is not to kill, it is to win.

Which involves alot of killing.

Secondly, in a fire-fight killing ins't always the preffered option.

No, but it is THE option.

A wounded man in your possesion can be interogated, a wounded man in their possession, costs food, medical supplies, slows them down.

Okay.

Be a pacifist if you must, but I find it disturbing considering the danger some of those men and women are in, to find people spitting in their faces.

They are in a dangerous position of their own choosing.

You don't need to fight, you don't need to kill, but recognise at least the courage/medical expertise/leadership etc that their job often requires.

It doesnt take courage to voluntarily kill people for a job.

Now I am a peace loving hippy just as much as the next guy, but I recognise that warfare and killing are pretty much a necessity when it comes to living beings.

Then you arent very peace loving if you believe warfare is necessary.

 

[Gishin]

Man this is awesome. Before I came to this board I never realized I was a cold blooded killer, a mercenary who murders for money. How's the air from on high?

 

[Verv]

It takes courage to voluntarily face death, CC girl.

CC, why do you think that humanity can live in a world where war does not exist?

 

[Gishin]

A peaceful world is only possible when everyone wants peace. The peaceful will be taken advantage of by those with greed unless someone not so peaceful steps in. I am against America's recent misuse of the military, don't get me wrong, but you're going off the deep end here.

 

[Verv]

A peaceful world is only possible when everyone wants peace. The peaceful will be taken advantage of by those with greed unless someone not so peaceful steps in. I am against America's recent misuse of the military, don't get me wrong, but you're going off the deep end here.

Thank you for being logical.

However, I do support America's more recent uses of the military and I think that if you really looked into it objectively you would also see the purpose in it.

There will always be situations where the best course of action is to kill a dictator and free a nation; even if it doesn't always go smoothly it is necessary to keep these guys on the edge of their seats.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I would say many of those involved in the military are killers. But that is not a bad thing, it is only once the question of if it was justified answered do we see good and bad cases. And very few of us probably would not become killers once a situation, in our opinion, justified it enough. Just because I have never pulled the trigger on anyone doesn't mean I hold myself higher. In fact, I have realized some of the bounds where I would, so while in actuality, the physical, I have not killed, in the mental, metaphysical, I am no different.

On a different note, how does the military respond to those who want to kill the enemy (whom ever it may be), those who seem to treat it as 'fun' (for lack of a better word)?

 

[ACougar]

You can't have peace without justice and you can't always obtain justice through non-violence.

 

[Chesterton]

On a different note, how does the military respond to those who want to kill the enemy (whom ever it may be), those who seem to treat it as 'fun' (for lack of a better word)?

I should hope they are responded to with generous re-enlistment bonuses.

 

[quatona]

You can't have peace without justice

Sure you can. I remember many instances of there being peace without justice.

and you can't always obtain justice through non-violence.

Whereas violence is a safe method to cause injustices.

 

[ACougar]

Whenever there is injustice (perceieved or real,) there exists the potential for violence. Violence can be suppressed by various means, however injustice is always there like dry underbrush in a forest waiting for a spark.

Sure you can. I remember many instances of there being peace without justice.

Whereas violence is a safe method to cause injustices.

 

[Fin12]

.


Then you arent very peace loving if you believe warfare is necessary.

Sorry, WHAT?.... just what? How does that make sense? You've even highlighted a key word.


I'll do some research but not long ago the U.K military "degraded" their "standard" rifles, so that they would be wounding rather than outright killing.

It takes courage to be shot at it, and have IED's going of round abouts you.

Again warfare is a neccesity in human life, "treasure like a tigers cub".

Sometimes we have to defend viciously what we treasure dearly. I think Ghandi himself said, he would rather be a warrior for good, than stand back and be a witness to evil.

 

[EvangelicalChristian]

Which involves alot of killing.



No, but it is THE option.



Okay.



They are in a dangerous position of their own choosing.



It doesnt take courage to voluntarily kill people for a job.



Then you arent very peace loving if you believe warfare is necessary.

So how would a peace loving country respond to an invasion?

 

[Fin12]

So how would a peace loving country respond to an invasion?

Bang, right on the head!

 

[quatona]

So how would a peace loving country respond to an invasion?

A peace loving country would respond peacefully, unless it loves something else more than peace.